Anna Turley

[Scrote]

I don’t care, I voted for both of them because they were Labour.

And I got neither, I got Thatcher and Major instead.

If you think that’s a good result after worrying about who is this left or that left than that is your business.

A general election isn’t some kind of political theory university course.

I don't understand the point you're making.

Are you saying I should have ignored @Unravel_Morrison 's post because YOU don't want to discuss intra-party politics?

And by not caring when Kinnock purged the [PEOPLE I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU WANT DEFINING] do you not take any responsibility for Thatcher, Major et al?

Where do you stand on the SDP?

 

[norfolkngood]

When I was a kid I thought Michael Collins was literally a saint as my nanna had his photo on display alongside assorted Sacred Hearts, Virgin Marys, and beatified figures.

Michael Collins sister was a nun in South Bank. She died at Crossbeck Convent in Normanby.
There is a belief that Michael visited South Bank to meet her.

 

[HolgateCorner]

I don't understand the point you're making.

Are you saying I should have ignored @Unravel_Morrison 's post because YOU don't want to discuss intra-party politics?

And by not caring when Kinnock purged the [PEOPLE I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU WANT DEFINING] do you not take any responsibility for Thatcher, Major et al?

Where do you stand on the SDP?

No I don’t think you should ignore another poster.

I was just commenting on what you posted (and not about you personally, you can hold and discuss whatever views you like, it’s a free country).

I have never voted anything other than Labour in a general election, the SDP split the anti Tory vote and gave Thatcher too many years in power.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

Show us?
Show who?
I'm comfortable trusting the sources I follow. Putting their names in block capitals doesn't add greater validation to your defence of them. They both share abhorrent views. You can continue to follow me around the board like a desperate puppy all you like, you won't change my opinion.

The block capitals were not for validation because I wasn't writing anything that needed validating, They were to create clarity for your benefit because every time I write 'Waters' or 'Loach' you see 'Corbyn' or 'Labour'.

How about you validate your claims about these two people, otherwise they just look ridiculous.

 

[Scrote]

No I don’t think you should ignore another poster.

I was just commenting on what you posted (and not about you personally, you can hold and discuss whatever views you like, it’s a free country).

I have never voted anything other than Labour in a general election, the SDP split the anti Tory vote and gave Thatcher too many years in power.

I agree that getting the Tories out is of paramount importance. Just as it has been for every election where they've held power.

But when I say Tories in that context I'm referring to Tory ideology as much as the person wearing a blue rosette.

The socio-economic direction a party sets out (or an MP supports) is more important than what they call themselves.

And for me, personally, the historical actions of Anna Turley matter when it comes to voting (or not) for her.

 

[Easterside_Red]

The block capitals were not for validation because I wasn't writing anything that needed validating, They were to create clarity for your benefit because every time I write 'Waters' or 'Loach' you see 'Corbyn' or 'Labour'.

How about you validate your claims about these two people, otherwise they just look ridiculous.

I can read perfectly well thanks and don't care to be patronised by you. One man's 'ridiculous' is another's 'objective assessment'.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

I can read perfectly well thanks and don't care to be patronised by you. One man's 'ridiculous' is another's 'objective assessment'.

Great, if your accusations are the result of objective assessment you will have no problem posting your evidence.
Fire away.

 

[Easterside_Red]

Great, if your accusations are the result of objective assessment you will have no problem posting your evidence.
Fire away.

Just to satisfy you and your band of comrades? Nah.

 

[HolgateCorner]

I agree that getting the Tories out is of paramount importance. Just as it has been for every election where they've held power.

But when I say Tories in that context I'm referring to Tory ideology as much as the person wearing a blue rosette.

The socio-economic direction a party sets out (or an MP supports) is more important than what they call themselves.

And for me, personally, the historical actions of Anna Turley matter when it comes to voting (or not) for her.

I agree with you about Tory ideology being more important than the badge but I would hope the Labour Party machine will weed out the imposters.

If I think back to all Labour manifestos I have been happy with the general direction of the party.

What particularly makes you unhappy with Turley (assuming you are)?

 

[Redwurzel]

Orwell wrote about this in the appendices of "Homage to Catalonia". The left will always splinter on ideology when the right just gets things done and worries about it afterwards.

The problem now is that the hard-left were battered by Kinnock, The main-stream left sucked it up and supported Blair. The soft-left got behind Corbyn and expected the right (of the Labour party) to do likewise. The right (of the Labour party) decided to splinter and destroyed any chance of a Labour victory in 2017 and 2019. Despite that, Corbyn got reasonably close to power in 2017.

Starmer then promised some form of continuity and the left voted for him as a respectable pseudo-establishment figure who was saying the correct things.

On election, he ripped up everything he'd been elected on.

There can only be so much betrayal before people decide to just walk away.

The left haven't splintered. They've been deliberatley abandoned. The fallout will be long lasting but I fully expect a Labour victory at the next election. The problem is that nothing substantial will change. A lot of middle-class people will end up slightly better off but the people of Redcar and it's environs will be ignored.

Some interesting points - the Republican split in 1937 Spain were greatest between the Anarchists and the rest of the Republic. The Anarchists were at the forefront of land reform (dividing up the massive estates into small plots for landless agricultural workers, social reform (particularly equal rights for Women). They were really the radical left, for example they believed in electing their own officers if they had officers at all. The Communists were actually more conservative and were not so keen on democracy. They wanted women in to some extent in traditional roles in Spain. They also gained a lot of power in Spain from a small base, because the Soviet Union provided key supplies and no where else did. Stalin wanted the Republic to be controlled by the communists and the anarchists he saw as a threat, like Trotsky. The Soviet Union helped raise quite a large gathering of International Brigades from communist members around the World. The communists and non-anarchists said the anarchists were too undisciplined to be effective, that there was no place for democracy in a war. Apologies - its an interest of mine.

If anyone is interested in Spain in 1936/7 this was a great drama made by Canal+ in 1996. Its only recently become available in full with English Subtitles on You Tube. Be warned its not for children, particularly the last 15 minutes.

In this country I would say the bulk of Labour MPs were almost detached from Labour members after Corbyn was elected by a record amount of member votes to be leader. Most Labour MPs to me are akin to social democrats more like SDP under Dr Owen. They believe the way to power is to follow the model of Blair, opposed to say the socialism of 1945. Some maybe will say they are socialists, but have to appear social democrats to win. The Tories in recent years have moved to the Centre as well, especially since 2016. The Tories are normally better at hiding differences, while some in Labour seem to enjoy differences. I also think Labour needs to do a lot more to gear itself towards people outside of the Big English Metropolitan cities (Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Birmingham, Bristol, London). Labour should not be afraid to be different, peole will accept some Left of centre policies if they think it helps society as a whole and their familiies, but they have to be carefully selected. In 2019 many voters were not very interested in normal policies, because the EU Leave debate was 90% of what was talked about.

 

[Mendieta14]

heres the current projection