I think they've pretty much wrote off the chances of any of the 20/22 years olds now and focusing on the next group. Who are the ones getting in the match day squad
Ajay Matthews - Fabrizio Romano
- Thread starter GeneParmesan
- Start date
Some of them are 18 and 19...
BoroMart
Well-known member
I guess from those 3 year groups we got Hackney and Coburn. 2 players of that quality every 3 years and we would be chuffed.
I understand all players want to play - but this is nonsense. They'd need to be in the top 1-2% in their age group, to play consistently in the championship at that age.
Jeremy Sivi was the next big thing when he was 18/19 a couple of years ago - went to pre-season with Warnock - made his debut in the cup - now he's struggling on loan in league 2.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
Didn’t Coburn come through Sunderland’s academy?
He joined us in 2019, he will have been around 17 at the time. Similar to Tav
TeaCider
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Yeah, he was in their academy from the age of 11 until he joined our academy at 16.
Hackney played 1 minute for us in the league aged 19 - he then went to Scunthorpe and played over 50 league games before getting his chance.
Coburn played 50~ minutes across 4 sub appearances (and scored) aged 18 - he then started 2 games and made a 10~ sub appearances aged 19 before playing over 40 league games for Bristol.
Frys probably the only exception for years - 90 mins in 8 games when he was 18 - we had a few injuries - Jack Stephens was one of them. He was then loaned to Rotherham the following season.
Players don't typically get a run of games under the age of 19 - unless they're really special.
Bruce
Well-known member
The problem seems to be that no one wants the seniors on loan and even when they go on loan, they don't play. Looking at outfield players 20 or over
Gibson, injured, loaned-hardly played
Sykes, loaned-hardly played
Hannah, loaned-hardly played
Willis - injured, never loaned
Collins, Gitau, Whelan - nothing going on
Everything about this implies they just aren't making the grade. If the problem was with our coaches, they would be playing when they went on loan.
The odd thing are the purchases like Agyemang, Nkrumah and so on who go out on short loans, don't play many games then come back. Or players like Conteh and Kavanagh who have reasonably successful loans but are out the door at the first opportunity.
My guess is that there has been a big revision of how we run our U21s but that it has also fallen prey to the Squid Game sequel that seems to be happening at Rockliffe.
Gibson, injured, loaned-hardly played
Sykes, loaned-hardly played
Hannah, loaned-hardly played
Willis - injured, never loaned
Collins, Gitau, Whelan - nothing going on
Everything about this implies they just aren't making the grade. If the problem was with our coaches, they would be playing when they went on loan.
The odd thing are the purchases like Agyemang, Nkrumah and so on who go out on short loans, don't play many games then come back. Or players like Conteh and Kavanagh who have reasonably successful loans but are out the door at the first opportunity.
My guess is that there has been a big revision of how we run our U21s but that it has also fallen prey to the Squid Game sequel that seems to be happening at Rockliffe.
This is the point.
Also plenty of people making the points above that players have been loaned out at that age.
Those players are being loaned out and not making the grade. They just simply aren't good enough.
We may see different results with the younger lads.
GibbosEmpire
Well-known member
Thing is, have there been any players from the academy that have gone onto better things?
Since the crop that came through from about 2002-06, nearly 20 years ago, we have produced only a handful of championship level players. The ones that have actually gone on to being regular premier league level players is limited to just Tavernier I think. Ben Gibson went for big money but played only one PL game for Burnley before going back to the championship with Norwich so I wouldn't class him as a PL regular. We don't even have many that have failed to make our first team that have gone elsewhere and ended up being a championship player.
Jason Steele has recently become a PL regular but he had to wait until he was in his 30s. He signed his pro deal in 2009, 15 years ago.
MickaelDebevePhenomenal
Well-known member
I'd say so along with Lennon and also Dan James / Eric Hamelberg in the u18s who have been in and around England squads. McCabe, Cartwright, Hamelberg, James, Bridge, Woolston are all CM (and a few left footed) so we have a lot in that area though McCabe and Cartwright at least can play a more attacking role.
Shea Connor (GK) as well who is still an u18 but regular u21 keeper now and has been with the first team.
I think it's fine margins sometimes though, just because they don't make it elsewhere doesn't mean they couldn't have done here with more opportunities. Where would Hackney be now if Wilder hadn't been sacked?
It's definitely fine margins - but they need to go out on loan in my opinion - Hackney played 50 times for Scunthorpe before he played for us.
Law McCabe will be 18 before the start of next season - if he's really got what it takes - send him out for 6 months with the view of if he succeeds, he can be in the squad post-January.