African Teams at This World Cup

Muttley said:
Are they? After watching USA, Canada and Mexico I would say not.

Their defensive game has come on but at the expense of their creative side it appears
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I'd also ask how many African sides would be favourites against Japan or South Korea?

One problem with African football is they have quite a lot of teams of a similar quality, but maybe not the outstanding teams other continents have. I think they have another 5 teams as good those who have qualified, but the qualification process limits them to 5.

By contrast, North America and Asia have teams who are usually better than the rest of their continent and qualify for most tournaments. However, I do wonder if the depth is there below the top levels.
 
atypical_boro said:
Also, quite a few African-born players get 'poached' by European countries with colonial links.
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Do they?

I think that's a dangerous argument, given there are only a handful of players born in Africa in the European squads, and almost all moved to their adopted country at a very young age and not for footballing reasons.

France:
- a 37 year old back up goalkeeper in Mandanda (DR Congo) lived in France since he was 2 years old.
- 20 year old Camavinga (Angola), lived in France since he was 2 years old.

Germany: 18 year old Moukoko, who moved to Germany from Cameroon when he was 10, but he did Dad was a German citizen.

Spain: 20 year old Fati, who moved to Spain from Guinnea-Bissau when he was 6.

Portugal:
- 31 year old Pereira, who moved to Portugal from Guinea-Bissau when he was 5.
- 30 year old Carvalho, who moved to Portugal from Angola at a "few years old".

Switzerland: 25 year old Breel Embolo, who left Cameroon at 5.

Belgium: 21 year old Onana who left Senegal at 11 years old, after spending every summer in Brussels with his Dad from the age of 5.

So that's 8 players out of a possible 338 (13 European countries, 26 man squads).

I wouldn't say any were poached, they play for the countries they grew up in.
Their countries of birth had very little impact on their footballing development.

There are more English players in the Wales squad than that.
 
Frozen Horse said:
I'd also ask how many African sides would be favourites against Japan or South Korea?

One problem with African football is they have quite a lot of teams of a similar quality, but maybe not the outstanding teams other continents have. I think they have another 5 teams as good those who have qualified, but the qualification process limits them to 5.

By contrast, North America and Asia have teams who are usually better than the rest of their continent and qualify for most tournaments. However, I do wonder if the depth is there below the top levels.
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Just to back that up, Africa have 3 non-qualified nations ranked higher than Cameroon, and a further 3 ranked higher than Ghana.

By contrast, the top 6 Asian teams, and top 4 CONCACAF nations are those continents representatives.

I don't set that much value by the rankings, but this supports the idea that Africa has more depth, if not the peak quality of other continents.
 
TeaCider said:
Do they?

I think that's a dangerous argument, given there are only a handful of players born in Africa in the European squads, and almost all moved to their adopted country at a very young age and not for footballing reasons.

France:
- a 37 year old back up goalkeeper in Mandanda (DR Congo) lived in France since he was 2 years old.
- 20 year old Camavinga (Angola), lived in France since he was 2 years old.

Germany: 18 year old Moukoko, who moved to Germany from Cameroon when he was 10, but he did Dad was a German citizen.

Spain: 20 year old Fati, who moved to Spain from Guinnea-Bissau when he was 6.

Portugal:
- 31 year old Pereira, who moved to Portugal from Guinea-Bissau when he was 5.
- 30 year old Carvalho, who moved to Portugal from Angola at a "few years old".

Switzerland: 25 year old Breel Embolo, who left Cameroon at 5.

Belgium: 21 year old Onana who left Senegal at 11 years old, after spending every summer in Brussels with his Dad from the age of 5.

So that's 8 players out of a possible 338 (13 European countries, 26 man squads).

I wouldn't say any were poached, they play for the countries they grew up in.
Their countries of birth had very little impact on their footballing development.

There are more English players in the Wales squad than that.
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But a lot of those players would probably have played for the country of their birth if that country happened to be more of a footballing powerhouse.

Poached was the wrong term fair enough, I wasn't suggesting there was a deliberate recruitment drive or anything. But I also wasn't just talking about this world cup, over the years there's been quite a few.
 
There are:

- 8 players in the Ghana squad born in Europe
- 9 players in the Cameroon squad
- 11 in the Senegal squad
- 12 in the Tunisia squad
- 13 players in the Morocco squad
 
atypical_boro said:
But a lot of those players would probably have played for the country of their birth if that country happened to be more of a footballing powerhouse.

Poached was the wrong term fair enough, I wasn't suggesting there was a deliberate recruitment drive or anything. But I also wasn't just talking about this world cup, over the years there's been quite a few.
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Maybe, but I also think that somebody who's lived in France since they were a baby might just feel French.
 
TeaCider said:
Maybe, but I also think that somebody who's lived in France since they were a baby might just feel French.
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But even if that's true, my point is there are a lot of colonial links that lots of other nations don't really have. I wasn't suggesting or implying that they don't or shouldn't feel French. They may very well feel aligned to both nations though. I feel like this affects Africa more than other continents.
 
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atypical_boro said:
I don't think I remember anyone thinking they'd be cleaning up, there were no signs African economies would particularly strengthen so I never expected the football teams to to that extent.

Pele said in 1977ish that an African side would win the World Cup by 2000, but they came nowhere near and still haven't.

Since 2002, the World Cup is a European shoo in, even the South American sides can't compete economically. I don't think that'll change at this World Cup personally.
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Certainly from Italia 90 onwards they were saying an African side would be winning the World Cup in the not too distant future.
 
atypical_boro said:
I'm not saying just based on this week though, I mean generally speaking. Still a long way to go even just in this group stage.
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Did you watch AFCON?. As a football spectacle it stank the place out.

Nice to see Ghana at last giving it a go at least even though they will lose.
 
Zoophonic said:
Did you watch AFCON?. As a football spectacle it stank the place out.

Nice to see Ghana at last giving it a go at least even though they will lose.
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Ok but did you watch the Asian Cup? Qatar won it. They made Ecuador look like 1970s Brazil. I don’t think any of these things prove anything conclusive.

One things for sure, an African, Asian or North American (or Australasian for that matter) country won’t be winning the World Cup any time soon.

Tbh I don’t see anything other than a European winner here either.
 
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atypical_boro said:
Ok but did you watch the Asian Cup? Qatar won it. They made Ecuador look like 1970s Brazil. I don’t think any of these things prove anything conclusive.

One things for sure, an African, Asian or North American (or Australasian for that matter) country won’t be winning the World Cup any time soon.

Tbh I don’t see anything other than a European winner here either.
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I can only see a French win to be fair on the evidence of the first round despite Spains whipping of Costa Rica. That said Brazil are starting to dominate a very good Serbia.
 
If anything I think the North African teams have come on at the expense of the sub-continental ones, technically and tactically.

Tunisia and Morocco both qualified, I rate Morocco. Egypt and Algeria aren’t even there and would give anyone a game with their star players.

I was surprised watching the Cameroon and Ghana games how there were so many Premier League players who couldn’t make simple passes, both games they looked way behind the likes of the Asian teams on the ball and panicky in possession. Of course not having Mane there is a big loss for African football, and Nigeria should be a powerhouse, their population is bigger than ours and Germany combined and is a proper footballing hotbed.

I dunno, has football moved on a bit? The 2000s/early 2010s was really based around pace and power, and you had the likes of Drogba, Essien, Eto’o, Yaya Toure who were dominant. You’d get Cameroon, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Ghana and Senegal at every World Cup and being dangerous.

Now it’s about pace and technique. Some GKs are as good on the ball as wingers would have been 40 years ago and everybody has to be so sharp on the ball, centre backs who can pass and full backs as your main creative players is a meta.

Even England has a production line of amazing technical players, which is that revolution in coaching from the academy system - this didn’t happen 30 years ago.

Obviously not saying sub-Saharan African players can’t do this as that’s a pure racist cliche. But I wonder if the technical coaching that European kids get from such early ages isn’t happening as much there, and the way elite football is played now suits different types of players more.

Was interesting to me that so many of the Japanese squad play in Bundesliga. That quick, tactical, crazy work rate and unbelievable technique seems to be developing a load of Japanese players which suits that league. I played with a few Japanese lads for a few years and it was very funny, they all wanted to play left wing - often you’d have literally three of them running up there being Ronaldo.
 
Ok, I'm prepared to take back some of what I've said on this thread: some of the African teams have been very good, and they've all had their moments.

I'll stand by my comments about Asia and North America developing faster though.

I'll also say Africa still has more strength in depth than the WC shows. Their final qualifying round is a knockout, so maybe that's not the best way of making sure your best teams qualify? Nigeria, Egypt,Algeria et are decent sides too.
 
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