A little bit more Mick Lynch...

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

I don't disagree. The issue with public sector pay is that it has been eroded over time. Any government would be slaughtered of they offered 19%. However promising 1.5% above inflation once we are out of recession and 5 our 6% today would probably do it.

They're not getting slaughtered for the barristers 15% rise.

 

[Laughing]

He's talking about a solution throughout that video. Redistribution, taking the wealth back that has been taken away over the last four decades.

If you consider that a solution I suppose you are right.

 

[Laughing]

They're not getting slaughtered for the barristers 15% rise.

The overall cost for nurses pay rise is orders of magnitude above barristers. Barristers were, generally very poorly paid too. As they are self employed, generally, and pay towards the Chambers it left many of them below the breadline.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

If you consider that a solution I suppose you are right.

Is there another option?

 

[Redwurzel]

I do believe in free markets in many goods and services, but too often there are glaring differences in opportunity in life for differing groups in society so the playing field is very unequal. Markets can easily get rigged and distorted too by vested interests and political interests. Hence I am not a big fan of centralised power.

Ref Nurses - most fully qualified niurses seem to earn between £27k and £32k and we have big shortages of them. Its seems common sense to me to pay them more to reduce the shortages. I suggested 7.5% which was not perfect but would help. The current offer of £1400 is by my maths only around 4.3% to 5.2% and would I doubt help recruitment and retention. If the Government can't fund 7.5% it needs to reduce some of its many tax avoidance schemes.

 

[Laughing]

Is there another option?

How do you redistribute wealth what switches do you use? If you are happy with that and call it a solution, fine. I certainly don't nor would the electorate. Never seen that in a manifesto before and for good reason. Its a statement not a policy and has no detail.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

How do you redistribute wealth what switches do you use? If you are happy with that and call it a solution, fine. I certainly don't nor would the electorate. Never seen that in a manifesto before and for good reason. Its a statement not a policy and has no detail.

How has wealth been redistributed over the past four decades?

 

[Laughing]

What is that 19% based on, is that the figure to catch up with inflation to the present day?

From looking at below and assuming a nurse for example is on about 30k, they look about 5% down based on 2021 levels, which is probably more like 17% based on now. Thats probably 10 years at 5% down mind.

View attachment 49391

I think pay to match equivalent 2011 levels but only going up to 2020, pre covid, then add on another two years of 2% to get us to the present day. Then also add whatever they have lost between 2011-2021 as a lump sum.

So, that might work out as a 10% rise to cover up to end of 2023, plus a 15k lump sum (or 1.5k per year worked in the alst 10).

Then aim to catch inflation over the next 5 years. We will probably be on maybe 7% next year, but after that could be in deflation for a few years, so that may only end up 0-1% per year. Then from there link it to inflation.

Its not just pay though, it's working conditions too. Increasing staffing, bed numbers, means of exit to actually get patients out of the hospital (apparently this is a massive problem). Staff shouldn't be expected to work over 2 hours per shift, for free, clock them in and out and pay them overtime with a simple scheme which can be instantly approved by senior staff without added paperwork/ issues.

Is difficult to come up with a catchall figure because higher bands have stagnated much more than lower bands, but essentially yes the 19% is to cover the real reduction in salary and, I believe includes 2022 inflation.

 

[Laughing]

How has wealth been redistributed over the past four decades?

I have no idea what you are driving at ctc

 

[Jedi boro]

Calm, reasoned and sensible.

Isn’t he just and that is what is infuriating those opposed to him esp the govt and their lick spittle’s.

He’s what the tories fear the most someone that knows more than they do and they know it.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

I have no idea what you are driving at ctc

Mick Lynch is talking about redistribution of wealth, moving wealth back to where it was. The money is still in the system but the wealth has been redistributed to a smaller group than once held it.

As he points out, if you have 10 billion why should you want 20 billion, but they do and that's what they've done, taken it away from those needing it most.

So now we're hitting the point where society rewards a few enormously and that few are looking to remove human rights.

Taxation is the obvious starter together with higher minimum wages and a recalculation of wage rises over the last four decades. Let's see adjustment up at the bottom end and down at the top end. We'll be a far healthier society for it.

 

[Laughing]

I

Mick Lynch is talking about redistribution of wealth, moving wealth back to where it was. The money is still in the system but the wealth has been redistributed to a smaller group than once held it.

As he points out, if you have 10 billion why should you want 20 billion, but they do and that's what they've done, taken it away from those needing it most.

So now we're hitting the point where society rewards a few enormously and that few are looking to remove human rights.

Taxation is the obvious starter together with higher minimum wages and a recalculation of wage rises over the last four decades. Let's see adjustment up at the bottom end and down at the top end. We'll be a far healthier society for it.

I get that but what are the mechanisms you use? That's why it's not a solution, it's barely even the start of a solution.

 

[gregorgregorovich]

I
I get that but what are the mechanisms you use? That's why it's not a solution, it's barely even the start of a solution.

The same ones that have been used against working people. Government intervention and a reversal of the neoliberal agenda and the policies that have been used to further that agenda. Ctc has given some of the measures that could be used as a starting point. Every thousand mile march starts with the first step.

 

[Colgates_shaving_foam]

I
I get that but what are the mechanisms you use? That's why it's not a solution, it's barely even the start of a solution.

For starters, nobody in an organisation can earn more than 15 times the annual salary of the lowest paid full time employee (including 'self employed' contractors)

If the CEO earns £10 mill (including benefits, pension, stock etc) then the lowest paid earns £666,666 and a bit.

Make it an offence punishable by a minimum of 5yrs in prison to conceal or attempt to conceal earnings.

That would start to set things right

Also, outlaw public (private) schools. Shut them down or better yet turn the facilities over to the state system. Once all the politicians and elites kids go to state school just watch how the system improves.

 

[Laughing]

For starters, nobody in an organisation can earn more than 15 times the annual salary of the lowest paid full time employee (including 'self employed' contractors)

If the CEO earns £10 mill (including benefits, pension, stock etc) then the lowest paid earns £666,666 and a bit.

Make it an offence punishable by a minimum of 5yrs in prison to conceal or attempt to conceal earnings.

That would start to set things right

Now that is the start of a solution. Mick Lynch didn't say that

 

[Jonny Ingbar]

I
I get that but what are the mechanisms you use? That's why it's not a solution, it's barely even the start of a solution.

I think the obvious solution in terms of pay, is that people are paid more, not less.

The rail dispute is an interesting one, because it draws in the issue of nationalisation too.

But if the rail operators, who are hugely subsidised BTW the public purse, can afford to pay executives and shareholders big sums of money, why can they not pay the workers in line with inflation, at least?

 

[Laughing]

I think the obvious solution in terms of pay, is that people are paid more, not less.

The rail dispute is an interesting one, because it draws in the issue of nationalisation too.

But if the rail operators, who are hugely subsidised BTW the public purse, can afford to pay executives and shareholders big sums of money, why can they not pay the workers in line with inflation, at least?

I don't disagree Jonny, the railways are an odd one with garaunteed profit, it's pretty bad.

 

[Facefuzz]

I think the obvious solution in terms of pay, is that people are paid more, not less.

The rail dispute is an interesting one, because it draws in the issue of nationalisation too.

But if the rail operators, who are hugely subsidised BTW the public purse, can afford to pay executives and shareholders big sums of money, why can they not pay the workers in line with inflation, at least?

If they can pay the execs huge bonuses and make a profit the why not nationalise it.
I wish they would.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

I
I get that but what are the mechanisms you use? That's why it's not a solution, it's barely even the start of a solution.

The mechanisms mentioned. Are you ignoring them purposely?

I know the philosophy of redistribution (from top down, I know we've voted to transfer from the bottom up for a long time) may not be a popular one but it would be nice to hear your alternative, together with the 'mechanisms' to make it work

 

[Laughing]

The mechanisms mentioned. Are you ignoring them purposely?

I know the philosophy of redistribution (from top down, I know we've voted to transfer from the bottom up for a long time) may not be a popular one but it would be nice to hear your alternative, together with the 'mechanisms' to make it work

Posted prior to your post CtC, in response to colgates post are you ignoring that?


In any event Mick Lynch did't give a single solution. Redistributing wealth is not a solution its a goal. The solution is how you achieve that. No point argiung with you after that!