‘China is a key enabler of Russia’s war in Ukraine’ says NATO

That is very much the US agenda.
I think I am ok to post this .... it's from a private conversation from my friend, who is at the summit and in the meetings. I'm posting for information purposes, not to be contrary.

'There were real arguments yesterday...


Quote
"There will be no F***ing China this decade"...


The US is arguing to put in China as the main enemy...


They live on an entirely different planet than we do.'

He was basically saying to me that there is a huge difference of opinion between the European cohort and the US.... and also a huge difference between the politicians and the military cohort.
He's no fan of the Chinese, but the politicians ...especially the US politicians... are pushing the "Demonise China" message and he believes that it is actually harmful to the Ukrainian/European cause.

He doesn't hold out much hope for NATO's future ... in terms of its relevance.... because the divisions are now so deep.

It's just his opinion, of course, but I believe it is shared quite widely on the European side.

It would seem from the communique that the USA got its way.
 
"Beijing’s mission to the EU said the summit was “filled with cold war mentality and belligerent rhetoric.”"

I am inclined to agree with the Chinese. I just do not understand NATO expansion and an insistence on tooling up.
Actually, I do understand. It is about money and getting countries signed up to NATO to spend trillions on weaponry instead of domestic health and education etc. There is not a bigger business than war. Countries haven't been spending since the end of the last cold war so lets have another fu.cking one.

And please do not slap me down as naïve before you consider your own naivety first.
 
The communique is stating what has been obvious from the start of the Ukraine conflict, that China is supporting Russia.

I really don’t understand why anyone, other than the Chinese would seek to deny this.
 
Mwelolo said:
The communique is stating what has been obvious from the start of the Ukraine conflict, that China is supporting Russia.

I really don’t understand why anyone, other than the Chinese would seek to deny this.
Click to expand...

Well it's definitely not obvious to Big Z's military representative at the NATO summit, who is on Ukraine's general staff.
But what's he to know.
 
MoggasDog said:
"Beijing’s mission to the EU said the summit was “filled with cold war mentality and belligerent rhetoric.”"

I am inclined to agree with the Chinese. I just do not understand NATO expansion and an insistence on tooling up.
Actually, I do understand. It is about money and getting countries signed up to NATO to spend trillions on weaponry instead of domestic health and education etc. There is not a bigger business than war. Countries haven't been spending since the end of the last cold war so lets have another fu.cking one.

And please do not slap me down as naïve before you consider your own naivety first.
Click to expand...
Have you told Putin theee’s no need for a war? I’m sure he’d listen.
 
I still can't believe that after all these years we have people still saying it's NATO's expansion that is the problem and that Russia was provoked. It's Russian's actions that have led to the NATO expanisons. All of it's neighbours without the protection have had at least some kind of skermish with Russia. The only neighbours Russia play nice with are the ones that are more powerful than them i.e. China. If they weren't a threat to the countries bordering Russia then there would have been no need to expand. But they are so NATO has.

A simple question - how many times has NATO directly attacked Russia? How many times has Russia attacked it's neighbours? And it's NATO that is the problem in this situation?

And that's before we look into Putin's speeches which have shown his ambition for expanding their borders. It's about as obvious about what was coming as Mein Kampf was.
 
I have just received my friend's long summary of the summit ...which I will put in the main thread later.
It's quite interesting on the nuances of the joint communique and how it was arrived at.
 
When I read Anthony Beevor's book "Russian Civil War" I was surprised to read how many Chinese fought for the Russian communists (Reds) in 1918-1921 period. The Chinese units were a consistent and reliable force for the Reds. At the time China was not communist, it was the end of the Imperial rule in China and there was no Chinese Communist Party. Any Chinese caught by the Whites (Anti Communist Russians, Ukrainian Nationalists, Czechs, Poles, Western Allies at times) were horrendously dealt with. This support by ordinary Chinese for Russian communists in the 1918-21 period has a legacy today where by there will be some in Russia feel the West is totally against them and some Chinese feel the same and that binds them together.
 
borolad259 said:
Well it's definitely not obvious to Big Z's military representative at the NATO summit, who is on Ukraine's general staff.
But what's he to know.
Click to expand...
Well, he would seem to be in glorious isolation with this view.

Zelensky himself has spoken of China’s support for Russia.

But what is he to know?
 
Mwelolo said:
Well, he would seem to be in glorious isolation with this view.

Zelensky himself has spoken of China’s support for Russia.

But what is he to know?
Click to expand...

I don't think he has, recently.
Ukraine has received a lot of help from China (150mm shells, drone tech)
 
In his speech, Zelenskyy alleged that “Russia, using Chinese influence in the region, using Chinese diplomats also, does everything to disrupt the peace summit.” He further claimed that China was supplying “elements of Russia’s weaponry,” something the United States has alleged for months but Kyiv has remained circumspect about.

02/06/24 - 'Shangri-La' Dialogue Conference, Singapore
 
In the last 20 years - The Russians are trying to extend their sphere of influence and regain some of the influence they had under the Soviet Union and Imperial Russia before that. I don't support this, but this is what major countries do. Like the Nazis they will use the excuse of protecting ethnic Russians to militarily invade areas beyond areas that ethnic Russians occupy. Putin is using the conflict/war to keep Russia under his control.

Western Europe has done this with expanding the EU into areas that were the Soviet Union. OK not with guns, but have used money and trade as an incentive.

The USA has done it by expanding was it calls it friends abroad sending troops/advisers/ material to the Middle East, Vietnam, Afganistan, South and Central America. The USA has a military base on Cuba, which most of the Cubans did not want.

Sometimes it's not easy to say what are agrressive and what are defensive measures - when one empire starts to shrink it often say it needs to fight back to protect itself and its former interests. We have seen this with Britain in the past - invading part of Egypt to keep control of the Suez Canal, sending Black and Tans to Ireland to keep Ireland British and even frontline and elite troops to Northern Ireland supposedly to protect the minority Catholic community. Some said we sent troops to Iraq to protect the oil supply to the West. The local population soon classified it an invasion.

I know it didn't work in 1938, but I still think as general rule its best to sit down and do compromise deals and avoid wars/conflicts.
 
Last edited:
Jan_Aage_Fjortoft said:
I still can't believe that after all these years we have people still saying it's NATO's expansion that is the problem and that Russia was provoked. It's Russian's actions that have led to the NATO expanisons. All of it's neighbours without the protection have had at least some kind of skermish with Russia. The only neighbours Russia play nice with are the ones that are more powerful than them i.e. China. If they weren't a threat to the countries bordering Russia then there would have been no need to expand. But they are so NATO has.

A simple question - how many times has NATO directly attacked Russia? How many times has Russia attacked it's neighbours? And it's NATO that is the problem in this situation?

And that's before we look into Putin's speeches which have shown his ambition for expanding their borders. It's about as obvious about what was coming as Mein Kampf was.
Click to expand...

Really? ...How many countries has Russia/Soviet Union or indeed China invaded? whereas the West:

"The U.S. has overthrown 50 governments, including democracies, crushed some 30 liberation movements and supported tyrannies from Egypt to Guatemala (see William Blum's histories). Bombing is apple pie." Along the way, Washington has crassly interfered in elections in dozens of "sovereign" nations, something curious to note in light of current liberal U.S. outrage over real or alleged Russian interference in "our" supposedly democratic electoral process in 2016. Uncle Sam also has bombed civilians in 30 countries, attempted to assassinate foreign leaders and deployed chemical and biological weapons.

www.commondreams.org

The World Will Not Mourn the Decline of U.S. Hegemony | Common Dreams

The death count resulting from “American Era” U.S. foreign policy runs well into the many millions.
www.commondreams.org www.commondreams.org
 
iamborome said:
Really? ...How many countries has Russia/Soviet Union or indeed China invaded? whereas the West:

"The U.S. has overthrown 50 governments, including democracies, crushed some 30 liberation movements and supported tyrannies from Egypt to Guatemala (see William Blum's histories). Bombing is apple pie." Along the way, Washington has crassly interfered in elections in dozens of "sovereign" nations, something curious to note in light of current liberal U.S. outrage over real or alleged Russian interference in "our" supposedly democratic electoral process in 2016. Uncle Sam also has bombed civilians in 30 countries, attempted to assassinate foreign leaders and deployed chemical and biological weapons.

www.commondreams.org

The World Will Not Mourn the Decline of U.S. Hegemony | Common Dreams

The death count resulting from “American Era” U.S. foreign policy runs well into the many millions.
www.commondreams.org www.commondreams.org
Click to expand...
Dont be silly. That's different. That was our side and we only invade and murder for the greater good of mankind. And money.

And isnt it funny that Russian money (Putins) was taken for 20 years by British politicians - even to the point of creating a Lord who was the son of a known KGB Officer and Putin friend, against the wishes of the Security Services - but that was a different Russia and a different Putin so that doesn't matter anymore.
 
masquesmog said:
In his speech, Zelenskyy alleged that “Russia, using Chinese influence in the region, using Chinese diplomats also, does everything to disrupt the peace summit.” He further claimed that China was supplying “elements of Russia’s weaponry,” something the United States has alleged for months but Kyiv has remained circumspect about.

02/06/24 - 'Shangri-La' Dialogue Conference, Singapore
Click to expand...
It was in this speech that Zelensky overtly came out and named what China was up to.

He had previously been circumspect about China because he wanted to develop a possitive relationship, hoping that China would possibly bring pressure on Russia to stop the war.

He had clearly realised that China had no such intention and felt it was time to name what they are up to.

China continues to support Russia with increased trade - including weaponry technology, diplomatic pressure, state visits and military exercises.
 
Redwurzel said:
In the last 20 years - The Russians are trying to extend their sphere of influence and regain some of the influence they had under the Soviet Union and Imperial Russia before that. I don't support this, but this is what major countries do. Like the Nazis they will use the excuse of protecting ethnic Russians to militarily invade areas beyond areas that ethnic Russians occupy. Putin is using the conflict/war to keep Russia under his control.
Click to expand...
Ethnic Russians were being shelled, persecuted and burned to death in public buildings before this war. Russian was even banned as a second language. Why shouldn't they be protected?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top