Morgan Rogers

Bruce said:
"Starting to fulfill his potential" that's what he says. It doesn't seem difficult to grasp.

His first few games for us were in the disastrous start to the season where he was initially being played out of position. He was taken out of the team for a while before being reintroduced at the end of November having shown what he can do in cup games. From that point onwards you could see him improving rapidly. 11 Championship appearances (9 starts) with 5 assists and 1 goal.

Aside from the initial experiment with him as a striker, Carrick and the coaches handled Rogers really well and he had become one of our main players by Christmas. That is literally a textbook example of how to handle a young, inexperienced player with potential. About 3 months in and out of the team as he learns his role then hoping he makes a position his own.

Also important to realise that he had made his name playing on the left of the forward line; relatively little experience playing as a #10. He was though starting to master the demands of the role in the Championship.

By the time Villa got obsessed with him he had probably made it into the top ten #10s in the league and every chance he would have kept on improving at the same rate.

Villa have bought him partly to keep Emery happy but they do have a smart recruitment team and they undoubtedly think he'll be worth £50m+ after a couple of seasons in the Premier. He has played more than I expected; I figured he would get some cup matches and 15 minutes here and there in the Premier league. Turns out though that they needed a fair amount of time from a back-up left winger which is where they have put him back to. Not good enough, yet, to be a Premier league #10 but with the extra room and time on the ball on the left, he is making a good case for himself.
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Disastrous start. Come on. We threw him in to a team of colleagues he didn’t know. Why do fans have expectancy of a player from their first few games? How long did it take for Akpom to settle? Remember Zenden? Many thought he was Shiite.
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
Disastrous start. Come on. We threw him in to a team of colleagues he didn’t know. Why do fans have expectancy of a player from their first few games? How long did it take for Akpom to settle? Remember Zenden? Many thought he was Shiite.
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Fans often hold it as a badge of honour to exaggerate a view and stick to it from the first game
 
kuepper said:
Irrespective of how good or bad he was for us it was terrible business to sell him so cheaply to a money-laden Premier club
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No it wasn’t. We did incredibly well to generate that kind of profit from a player that had no Premier League experience and had only been on our books for 6 months. There’s a that black and white, either or opinion again 🙄. There is a situation where in fact everyone won from this deal which is what I believe is the case.
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
Disastrous start. Come on. We threw him in to a team of colleagues he didn’t know. Why do fans have expectancy of a player from their first few games? How long did it take for Akpom to settle? Remember Zenden? Many thought he was Shiite.
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The team had a disastrous start to the season, remember? Worst ever start to a season in the second tier. Try reading what I wrote. I did not say his start was a disaster. I said he was played out of position then taken out of the team.
 
Zoophonic said:
Then there was this. Villa did their homework


https://twitter.com/x/status/1743303506759389418
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That pretty much puts to bed the ridiculous nonsense that he was not very good for us.
I’m not bothered about being right, I get things wrong all the time, for example I desperately wanted us to sign Greenwood in October/November!
It’s just irritating people won’t admit he was very obviously good for us, on one side you’ve got 16 goals and assists in half a season, the fact as shown above he was number one of players who increase their teams chances of scoring in the whole of the division, the fact Unai Emery one of the best managers in the world and Villa a champions league chasing team were desperate to sign him, then on the other side of the argument “I decided he’s not very good and my opinion is sacrosanct “.
People have put ample evidence to show he was very good , people saying he wasn’t any chance of some evidence that’s not just your opinion?
 
Bruce said:
The team had a disastrous start to the season, remember? Worst ever start to a season in the second tier. Try reading what I wrote. I did not say his start was a disaster. I said he was played out of position then taken out of the team.
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Ok apologise as your comments to Zoophonic appeared rather odd in context. That said your last comment that he is not yet good enough to be a premier league no 10. Yes he is.
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
That said your last comment that he is not yet good enough to be a premier league no 10. Yes he is.
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Happy to disagree with that, just a matter of opinion after all. I do think his absolute best position is on the left cutting in.

As it turns out, he fits the style Carrick prefers where we play with two #10s, one central and one wide but with licence to roam.

He reminds me of Chuba in that you can see he studies the game as he plays it.

It was a real shame that Villa came in for him the way they did. If we had kept him I think we would be seriously in contention for 6th place right now. It wasn't just that we don't have him but the disruption caused to the team as we had to adapt Azaz to the #10 role. With Latte Lath getting to grips with the league a front 4 of Jones - Rogers - Azaz - Latte Lath would have been tasty for the run in.
 
Rogers main problem at the start of the season, other than being played too high in a struggling team, was his tendency to misplace simple 5/10 yard passes. Now this was never, ever, an ability issue, more a concentration issue and an issue regarding his transition to regular high level senior football.

For a player that has absolutely coasted through academy football on sheer talent, this was always going to be the last piece of the puzzle.

Once we could give him those regular games in his optimal position, he got into the rhythm of high level football, it was clear he was going to excel above the level we were playing at.
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
Rogers main problem at the start of the season, other than being played too high in a struggling team, was his tendency to misplace simple 5/10 yard passes. Now this was never, ever, an ability issue, more a concentration issue and an issue regarding his transition to regular high level senior football.

For a player that has absolutely coasted through academy football on sheer talent, this was always going to be the last piece of the puzzle.

Once we could give him those regular games in his optimal position, he got into the rhythm of high level football, it was clear he was going to excel above the level we were playing at.
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He played for Blackpool in the Championship the season previous...
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
Rogers main problem at the start of the season, other than being played too high in a struggling team, was his tendency to misplace simple 5/10 yard passes. Now this was never, ever, an ability issue, more a concentration issue and an issue regarding his transition to regular high level senior football.

For a player that has absolutely coasted through academy football on sheer talent, this was always going to be the last piece of the puzzle.

Once we could give him those regular games in his optimal position, he got into the rhythm of high level football, it was clear he was going to excel above the level we were playing at.
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I think part of that was he struggled playing back to goal and either he misplaced because someone was nibbling his ankles or nudging him off balance or he anticipated someone would. But yes he made plenty of mistakes. As a young attacker I look at what they do well before looking at consistency. Defenders it’s different they need to be switched on, concentration can be a bigger factor for a defender
 
Abel Tasman said:
Hope thats laughing at yourself as he is 100% right. You can't point to goals scored as the indicator of wherever a creative player is successful. You point to the assists column and chances created in which he was one the best in the Championship.
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That graphic wasn't chances created though.

It was "Expected Offensive Value Added".

So it includes plenty of moments where he failed to create a chance when he should have, and goals he should have scored but didn't.

When that graphic was made, Rogers had 2 goals and 4 assists.

As an example Adam Armstrong had 13 goals and 9 assists at that point and is ranked below him.

I like Rogers, I was gutted we sold him, and we missed a decent number of chances in the first half of the season, but I don't for one second think that Rogers was outperforming Adam Armstrong at that point.

It's expected contributions rather than actual contributions.

If you fail to score from a point you should, that's not a positive.
At least with expected assists, you can place some of the blame on the player you're attempting to pass to, but even then it's going to include passes you should have done better with.
 
I think the lesson here is that it's foolish to form strong opinions in the first month or two following a new signing, particularly when it's a young player. I did feel there was a vocal faction on Rogers' back before the season even started due to some missed chances in pre-season. There's a thread from the start of September which seems to be a competition to see who can say the most vindictive thing about him.

As far as the fee goes, it looks a bit light just now. Rogers looks like being a success at Villa. However, no matter how talented a player is, no transfer is a sure thing, ever. The fee reflects the fact that he could have flopped, and that there was some risk to Villa. In the past we have paid "best case scenario" transfer fees, Britt springs to mind, where the price assumes he's going to maximise his potential at a new club. We've learned the foolishness of that, as has everyone else.

As for "We couldn't keep him"; I think that's a reflection of the foolishness of trying to keep a player who wants to leave. Yes, players have all the power, and yes, that stinks. However, it only harms the club if you try to resist that imbalance of power.
 
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