This Lindsay Hoyle business

BoroMart said:
You don’t need to get it as it isn’t your political position. I agree the sum of viewpoints would equate to ideology of they are all of the same bent, and not balanced and pragmatic.
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Whether I get it or not is immaterial. It's still a political position and the sum of the parts is an ideology. It might have a qualifier but you haven't stumbled on some new formula of political thought. Tony Blairs 'third way' was just a re-branding of existing ideas that sought to hide some of the labels from the people he was trying to woo. Socialism qualified with "light-touch" in many parts.

BoroMart said:
I think you are completely misinterpreting the stand point if that’s what you think centrist means…you’re describing a contrarian standpoint not a balanced one. Not only have you totally misrepresented my stance but you seem to be calling me a c… for having that view I don’t have 🙄
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I was asking what your view was. In 2007 did you think that NHS demand needed to be managed by utilising private services for overflow or by increasing the funding to match that demand?

From your current position, what's the longer term goal. Being pragmatic about how you deal with a crisis is a lot different to planning for the future.

The Conservative plan for the future is increased privatisation and a move towards the US model of insurance based healthcare (also something Wes Streeting is keen on pushing with Labour).
 
Scrote said:
Whether I get it or not is immaterial. It's still a political position
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All political positions are not ideology

Scrote said:
was asking what your view was. In 2007 did you think that NHS demand needed to be managed by utilising private services for overflow or by increasing the funding to match that demand?
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You asked the question under strange assumption that centrism always opposes the sitting government. It doesnt

Scrote said:
From your current position, what's the longer term goal. Being pragmatic about how you deal with a crisis is a lot different to planning for the future.
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Higher taxes to fund the services that have been decimated, cut tax loop holes for the elite. Which reading between the lines is what yours is, guess that makes us both c…ts then
 
BoroMart said:
All political positions are not ideology
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I didn't say they were. A collection of political positions will be mappable to an existing ideology - albeit with the possibility of needing a qualifier.

BoroMart said:
You asked the question under strange assumption that centrism always opposes the sitting government. It doesnt
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No. I asked the question based on your stated position. Which was:

I believe that to manage demand some private services could be used as a capacity overflow for the nhs. That’s pragmatic.
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My point being that the above "pragmatic" position, that you point to as a mark of your centrism, is only relevant because an opposing ideology has put the NHS in a state that might require a short-term pragmatic approach. The question is to whether you'd have wanted to move to the pragmatic position from the better starting point - i.e. would you have privatised parts of a fully funded NHS?


BoroMart said:
guess that makes us both c…ts then
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I'm not sure if you missed the obvious joke reference I put in to clarify that the C was the Conservatives? I can accept it not being seen as particularly hilarious but it was always there. I was just pointing out that the Conservative ideology was to privatise the NHS. Sorry if you thought I was having a go at you, personally - that wasn't the intent.
 
Scrote said:
Whether I get it or not is immaterial. It's still a political position and the sum of the parts is an ideology. It might have a qualifier but you haven't stumbled on some new formula of political thought. Tony Blairs 'third way' was just a re-branding of existing ideas that sought to hide some of the labels from the people he was trying to woo. Socialism qualified with "light-touch" in many parts.


I was asking what your view was. In 2007 did you think that NHS demand needed to be managed by utilising private services for overflow or by increasing the funding to match that demand?

From your current position, what's the longer term goal. Being pragmatic about how you deal with a crisis is a lot different to planning for the future.

The Conservative plan for the future is increased privatisation and a move towards the US model of insurance based healthcare (also something Wes Streeting is keen on pushing with Labour).
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I think its more yours Stus and Bumfaces love of Conservatives fully privatisastion of of the NHS is the sickening point.
 
mercury_redstone7 said:
I think its more yours Stus and Bumfaces love of Conservatives fully privatisastion of of the NHS is the sickening point.
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Genuinely have no idea what you're wittering on about.

Why would left-wingers have any love for the Conservatives privatising the NHS?

Part of the reason we end up with disagreements on here is because we (the aforementioned) aren't willing to vote for a Labour party that has signalled (through Wes Streeting, Rachel Reeves et al) that it won't do enough to reverse the damage done by the Conservatives to the NHS.
 
Scrote said:
Genuinely have no idea what you're wittering on about.

Why would left-wingers have any love for the Conservatives privatising the NHS?

Part of the reason we end up with disagreements on here is because we (the aforementioned) aren't willing to vote for a Labour party that has signalled (through Wes Streeting, Rachel Reeves et al) that it won't do enough to reverse the damage done by the Conservatives to the NHS.
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Exactly.
 
Scrote said:
My point being that the above "pragmatic" position, that you point to as a mark of your centrism, is only relevant because an opposing ideology has put the NHS in a state that might require a short-term pragmatic approach
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It’s just one policy. Pragmatism is across a broad spectrum of policies. I agree with many left wing thoughts particularly on what social systems should be provided by the state and how they should be funded. But I’m pragmatic that there needs to be some free market economics at play
Scrote said:
My point being that the above "pragmatic" position, that you point to as a mark of your centrism, is only relevant because an opposing ideology has put the NHS in a state that might require a short-term pragmatic approach.
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there is no short term pragmatic approach from me. I’m always had the same strategic view of the nhs role and funding that view hasn’t changed in 50 years…the Overton window has moved right making it more imperative (in my view) to adopt the approach I have, but it hasn’t changed one iota
 
BoroMart said:
It’s just one policy. Pragmatism is across a broad spectrum of policies. I agree with many left wing thoughts particularly on what social systems should be provided by the state and how they should be funded. But I’m pragmatic that there needs to be some free market economics at play
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So essentially, what you're saying is that Corbyn was a centrist. Glad we've finally cleared that up.
 
Scrote said:
So essentially, what you're saying is that Corbyn was a centrist. Glad we've finally cleared that up.
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He isn’t a communist, despite what the press say, but his overall policies were very left. As I it’s the entire set of policies that matter not one
 
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