Anthony Joshua Agrees Terms to Fight Tyson Fury on December 3rd (or not)

FatCat said:
I think Joyce finished his career that night - I think he was down on the scorecards, Joyce jabbed his head off.
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I personally would have had Joyce slightly in front as well, but official scorecards had Dubois in front. There were a lot of close rounds in fairness.

He's had 3 fights since his injury and won all 3 against mediocre opposition. But he's 25 and has plenty of time. I would like to think we can still see him up there in the future. He's at least as good as the other fighters ranked in the 5-15 world rankings and could still potentially improve.
 
GazC_MFC said:
Wilder has knocked many of his opponents out 9+ rounds. He’s always in his fights due to his right hand. I actually think I’ve underrated wilder perviously.

I think he beats Joshua. He’s gone long with Ortiz twice, totally outboxed by him mind, but Ortiz is more technical than Joshua
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Wilder can beat anyone at any moment. Didn't quite happen for him against Fury but he was very close in that first fight. He's not pretty but he's very dangerous. Also showed great heart against Fury.

I'm not sure there's any other fighters who would survive 3 fights with Wilder without being knocked out.

I would worry for Usyk. If I was in the Usyk camp, Wilder is the one fighter I'd be telling him to avoid.

AJ v Wilder is a 50/50 fight in my opinion, although right now, I would back Wilder, given AJ's confidence is probably an all-time low.
 
B_G said:
I personally would have had Joyce slightly in front as well, but official scorecards had Dubois in front. There were a lot of close rounds in fairness.

He's had 3 fights since his injury and won all 3 against mediocre opposition. But he's 25 and has plenty of time. I would like to think we can still see him up there in the future. He's at least as good as the other fighters ranked in the 5-15 world rankings and could still potentially improve.
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I watched Joyce v Dubois and I can't remember how the official scorecards looked but I clearly remember Joyce looking in control of the fight from quite early on. He was breaking Dubois down and if it had gone 12 I would have had Joyce as a clear winner on the cards.

A Dubois points win would have been a robbery in my opinion.
 
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Uwefuchs said:
I watched Joyce v Dubois and I can't remember how the official scorecards looked but I clearly remember Joyce looking in control of the fight from quite early on. He was breaking Dubois down and if it had gone 12 I would have had Joyce as a clear winner on the cards.

A Dubois points win would have been a robbery in my opinion.
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I think Dubois won a few of the early rounds but they were close, but the longer the fight was going on, the more Joyce was asserting. Dubois may have been in front on official scorecards, but with the 10th being a 10-8 round and Joyce likely to win the last 2, I think he would have still gone on and won the fight even if Dubois hadn't took the knee.

Joyce seems to do that, can give away a few cheap rounds early but just keeps getting stronger. He's another level now Joyce though. He needs to try and get a title shot next year.
 
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Loop said:
Bang on. Couldn’t agree more with this post.

Wilder is hugely overrated on here. And it’s mostly by those who are pro-Fury fans.

🙃
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I know you are being silly but we don't have to underrate or overrate anyone on Fury, Joshua or Wilder's record.

They've all fought good fighters, Joshua has arguably beaten more top fighters, followed by Fury and then Wilder.

Fury is unbeaten and arguably sits top of the tree because of that.

Joshua is beatable but he's also very dangerous when he's at his best and could give Fury a lot of trouble still especially if Fury isn't absolutely switched on.

Wilder doesn't have the strongest record of fighters who's he's beat but his power is enough to take out virtually every fighter in the division.

None of them are bad, they all have things that they do better and worse than the other, none of them levels below the others and they all deserve credit for their careers.
 
GazC_MFC said:
Wilder has knocked many of his opponents out 9+ rounds. He’s always in his fights due to his right hand. I actually think I’ve underrated wilder perviously.

I think he beats Joshua. He’s gone long with Ortiz twice, totally outboxed by him mind, but Ortiz is more technical than Joshua
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In the last 3 years he has been out on his feet 5 times, 3 times against Fury and twice against Ortiz. He got lucky twice against Ortiz.

Ortiz is a decent boxer, but lets not pretend he's an amazing technical boxer with a great shot variety and great head movement, he isn't and skills, he isn't. He's fairly powerful, can take a shot, and has sound principles, but he's also old, and limited.
 
BoroMart said:
finished his career? He's 25, a kid by heavyweight standards
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Finished at the top level- before the Joyce fight everybody was talking as if he was the heir to the heavyweight throne, Joyce susbstantially proved that not to be the case. Let’s see but I can’t see him doing that well especially with the eye injury he suffered.
 
FatCat said:
Finished at the top level- before the Joyce fight everybody was talking as if he was the heir to the heavyweight throne, Joyce susbstantially proved that not to be the case. Let’s see but I can’t see him doing that well especially with the eye injury he suffered.
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I think it's still too early to say he won't come again, of course the eye injury is a concern, but then we've seen people like Bruno go on and win a title after a retina issue.

Dubois is still in the hot prospect category for me, still learning, he took the Joyce fight far too early in his career.
 
BoroMart said:
In the last 3 years he has been out on his feet 5 times, 3 times against Fury and twice against Ortiz. He got lucky twice against Ortiz.

Ortiz is a decent boxer, but lets not pretend he's an amazing technical boxer with a great shot variety and great head movement, he isn't and skills, he isn't. He's fairly powerful, can take a shot, and has sound principles, but he's also old, and limited.
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The heavyweight division has been poor for many years. I don’t think at the time of the fights these fighters were barley top 15
 
BoroMart said:
He got lucky twice against Ortiz.
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He knocked him out both times.

Stop with this 'lucky' nonsense.

Wilder's game plan more often than not is to win by KO. He executed his game plan against Ortiz twice.

Ortiz is old and and limited, but still dangerous. And Yet Wilder knocked him out twice.

That is not luck.
 
Marvanelli said:
He knocked him out both times.

Stop with this 'lucky' nonsense.
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Of course he was lucky, he was out on his feet and bang in trouble, a younger Ortiz would have finished him. Rewatch the fight, he was in big big trouble, Ortiz just ran out of gas. I don't buy that Wilders game plan was to let Ortiz hurt him until he got tired.
 
BoroMart said:
possibly/probably, but again only just. So two barely top 15 boxrs, he needs to fight and beat the top guys or he isn't at that level.
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I don't know what else you want to see from Wilder if he fights Andy Ruiz one of two things are likely to happen. Either he catches Ruiz early and finishes the fight or Ruiz outboxes him for long periods before Wilder 'luckily' takes him out late.

Who else does Wilder need to beat? Chisora, Whyte, Parker? What is that gonna tell us? Its gonna pad his record fair enough but I don't think we're gonna learn anything.

He's not suddenly going to turn into a heavyweight version of Willie Pep.

As boxing fans we should be demanding Fury vs Usyk and Joshua vs Wilder. The rest of the division are a level below (apart from Joyce but he's probably going to have to wait his turn).
 
BoroMart said:
Of course he was lucky, he was out on his feet and bang in trouble, a younger Ortiz would have finished him. Rewatch the fight, he was in big big trouble, Ortiz just ran out of gas. I don't buy that Wilders game plan was to let Ortiz hurt him until he got tired.
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He was in trouble, yes, and maybe a younger Ortiz would've finished him off.

It's all if/buts/maybes.

The fact of the matter, he knocked Ortiz out twice and won twice.

You could potentially argue once was luck.

Twice is not luck IMO.
 
Uwefuchs said:
I don't know what else you want to see from Wilder if he fights Andy Ruiz one of two things are likely to happen. Either he catches Ruiz early and finishes the fight or Ruiz outboxes him for long periods before Wilder 'luckily' takes him out late.
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I'd like to see him show some defensive boxing ability and not take a huge number of headshots. He's taken a massive amount of shots in the last 3 years, far too many for it to be good for your health. I'd like to see a defence, I'd like to see him use his levers to keep his opponent at a distance. He was comprehensively outboxed by Fury over 3 fights and Ortiz over 2 fights. He's pretty much lost every round where he has failed to land his big right. He's now going to be more and more vulnerable to anyone that lands first, because the number of shots he's taken will be taking there toll.
 
BoroMart said:
I'd like to see him show some defensive boxing ability and not take a huge number of headshots. He's taken a massive amount of shots in the last 3 years, far too many for it to be good for your health. I'd like to see a defence, I'd like to see him use his levers to keep his opponent at a distance. He was comprehensively outboxed by Fury over 3 fights and Ortiz over 2 fights. He's pretty much lost every round where he has failed to land his big right. He's now going to be more and more vulnerable to anyone that lands first, because the number of shots he's taken will be taking there toll.
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I don't think you're going to see that, he just doesn't have the boxing ability.

You're right about him becoming more vulnerable but that's the same for all of them. AJ has been in a few wars now and hurt a number of times, Fury's lifestyle will catch up with him eventually and they're all over 30.

Wilder was also far too heavy in his last 2 fights against Fury and although he got beaten to a pulp he also showed ridiculous amounts of toughness and bravery. I don't think a Dilian Whyte, Parker or Ruiz are good enough, big enough or durable enough to walk Wilder down like Fury did.
 
Marvanelli said:
So Helenius is a tomato can now?

Sure earlier in the thread you were suggesting Fury should be facing the same Helenius instead of Chirsora?
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Yes, he should have, because Chisora is on his way down and has been for 5 years. Literally nobody wants to see him beat a man he has already beaten twice and is worse now than the first time he beat him.

Helenius isn't a tomato can, but he isn't top 10 either. It made sense for Wilder to fight him, and I didn't say he was the ideal opponent for Fury, only that he would be a better option than Chisora. I stand by that.
 
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