FatCat
Well-known member
And FinallyWhat important historical fact can one learn from Mount Rushmore?
The best American Presidents were stoned
Have you seen the picture of Mount Rushmore before it was carved
It’s completely unprecedented
And FinallyWhat important historical fact can one learn from Mount Rushmore?
The best American Presidents were stoned
The middle east had a slave trade back then too to be fair.
That’s the conundrum now we have started down this path - and who is the judge and jury who decides. It’s gonna be interesting!Another question that may need answering soon is when do people move on from removing statues to removing books and artwork? Even worst case scenario removing people?
That’s the conundrum now we have started down this path - and who is the judge and jury who decides. It’s gonna be interesting!
My take on it - for what its worth - is that obviously dodgy ones like slave traders, etc. should be removed. They are pretty offensive.
I don´t see any reason not to remove statues or rename streets as time goes on. People don´t have to be celebrated as heroes forever just because they once were.
We should, however, be very careful about judging people from the past by todays standards. Captain Cook didn´t behave in a particularly good way regarding the natives he came across but I wouldn´t support removing his statue. I guess it comes down to the degree of wrongness. I think Cook was just a man of his time whereas the slave traders were more evil. Its difficult to judge though. Churchill undoubtedly had some pretty unpleasant views looked at from 2020 but you can´t take it away that he was a hero of this country. Like everything else in this life its not black and white - no pun intended.
Churchill is a difficult one, he undoubtedly did some things worth celebrating. He undoubtedly had some horrific behaviours and attitudes. Personally, I don't think they should come down (at this point in history), however, I think it's time we stopped selling him as some iconic unquestionable figure. The history taught at school should definitely be more balanced, paint him as a 3 dimensional character warts and all, NOT the sanitised idolisation of Churchill in some/many quarters, its unhealthy, and dishonest.And I guess that’s the debate if someone was racist let’s use Churchill as the example - but he also did many good things - are you saying that you personally think his statue should come down?
I’m not Britain First but I like the Mandella argument as it highlights the point - does someone who has done bad things in their life deserve the accolades because they have also done great things.
I like the native american response, we will build our own monument from a mountain, and you can fit your four racist heads in the head of our great hero....and no, stick your federal money to build it, we'll build it ourself. I visited it 20 years ago, would love to go back again in another 20 when it's near complete
a 120 year old statue isn't history in itself. It's a commentary on history, and that's exactly the point. the commentary is harmful and needs to change. The history is exactly the same, we're just viewing it through a healthier set of morals.My view on this is pretty clear and straightforward. We shouldn't be ripping down our history!
And I guess that’s the debate if someone was racist let’s use Churchill as the example - but he also did many good things - are you saying that you personally think his statue should come down?
I’m not Britain First but I like the Mandella argument as it highlights the point - does someone who has done bad things in their life deserve the accolades because they have also done great things.
Well said!There is a huge danger that something like removing statues will be all that gets done and it'll be used as an appeasement to the BLM movement.
Sort out the injustices first then address the history aspect later, not the other way round.
We can't change history, but we can change the future.
Im Asking the question about Churchill - personally I don’t think the statue should come down. The argument being bandied about is that he is racist and believed in eugenics hence should not be celebrated despite his other achievements.Was Churchill racist? I’d not even considered that, I think the point about Colston was his involvement in the slave trade. What is it that Churchill did that you object to?
Im Asking the question about Churchill - personally I don’t think the statue should come down. The argument being bandied about is that he is racist and believed in eugenics hence should not be celebrated despite his other achievements.
That is one of them also - but you get the point - for many people he is a hero.His other achievements being sending many British conscripts to their death?
What about Ghandi? He wrote some pretty racist things in his early life. Nelson Mandela? Some people say he was a terrorist and condoned violence. Lord Nelson defended slavery. Twelve of our British Monarchs presided over the colonies... Churchill? The Romans had slaves, shall we tear down the Baths and the Aqueducts?
That is one of them also - but you get the point - for many people he is a hero.