So Compulsory Vaccinations are Happening Then…..

sherlock1969 said:
It is impossible to go back to pre covid normality because a zero covid strategy is now impossible. Surely you don't need me to explain why it is now impossible to eradicate covid?

So there is no option of c) 100% pre-covid normality. How can there be? Go on, humour me.

But while doing so, don't forget to answer my original question too, otherwise you are just attempting that classic Tory trick of diversion.
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C is certainly an option. Who are you to decide that 100% pre-covid normality is decided by a zero covid strategy? Even New Zealand abandoned it in the end.

Viruses have been with us since the dawn of time. If the vaccine works, people who want it are protected, it severely reduces the chance of hospitalization and death. So why can't we go back to normal if the Covid Vaccine does all those things prior listed?

You can mention the Delta Variant then I will say why hasn't the booster been tweaked to protect against it? So C is totally and definitely an option. Options A and B are unacceptable at this stage, so i'm sorry I cannot go down your pre-loaded route game.
 
TeaCider said:
We are in normality right now.
There are virtually no restrictions.

The only reason they're talking about returning restrictions is because of the selfish b***ds who won't get the jab for themselves and their kids because they read something on Facebook.

Gibraltar might be almost completely vaccinated, Spain is not.
There is constant daily traffic between Spain and Gibraltar.
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To claim unvaccinated are to blame is quite simply plain ignorance at this stage @TeaCider. Your anger is misplaced.
 
DanJC said:
C is certainly an option. Who are you to decide that 100% pre-covid normality is decided by a zero covid strategy? Even New Zealand abandoned it in the end.

Viruses have been with us since the dawn of time. If the vaccine works, people who want it are protected, it severely reduces the chance of hospitalization and death. So why can't we go back to normal if the Covid Vaccine does all those things prior listed?

You can mention the Delta Variant then I will say why hasn't the booster been tweaked to protect against it? So C is totally and definitely an option. Options A and B are unacceptable at this stage, so i'm sorry I cannot go down your pre-loaded route game.
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For someone CEV there is no option c) therefore there is no possibility of 100% pre-covid normality. Stop defining normality based on your own experiences, for those CEV and/or immunocompromised, explain how they get back to pre-covid times without eradication of the virus? Which is now inarguably impossible.
 
TeaCider said:
Yeah, that graph clearly shows that unvaccinated people are a far more significant risk than vaccinated.
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So it doesn't matter to you that a vaccine that was meant to prevent transmission (back in Jan 2020) now has the same peak infectiousness as someone who isn't vaccinated? Are you saying spreading it is okay when your vaccinated? A desperate clutching at straws unfortunately @TeaCider.

No wonder Gibralatar are facing restrictions again can't blame the unvaccinated people for this one. Hypocrisy is off the charts for those with supposed better judgement.
 
sherlock1969 said:
For someone CEV there is no option c) therefore there is no possibility of 100% pre-covid normality. Stop defining normality based on your own experiences, for those CEV and/or immunocompromised, explain how they get back to pre-covid times without eradication of the virus? Which is now inarguably impossible.
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Are you seriously saying that CEV and/or immunocompromised have only ever been under threat from COVID and no other virus? Why did we not shutdown for them in the past?
 
DanJC said:
So it doesn't matter to you that a vaccine that was meant to prevent transmission (back in Jan 2020) now has the same peak infectiousness as someone who isn't vaccinated? Are you saying spreading it is okay when your vaccinated? A desperate clutching at straws unfortunately @TeaCider.

No wonder Gibralatar are facing restrictions again can't blame the unvaccinated people for this one. Hypocrisy is off the charts for those with supposed better judgement.
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Two people with the same symptoms, one vaccinated and one unvaccinated, will spread equally at the peak of infection.

But vaccinated people on average have fewer symptoms, are infected for less time, and are less likely to be infected.

There's no comparison.
 
DanJC said:
Are you seriously saying that CEV and/or immunocompromised have only ever been under threat from COVID and no other virus? Why did we not shutdown for them in the past?
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I'm saying that pre-covid, a trip to the supermarket was not a game of Russian Roulette for those people#
Admin edit. Cut out abusive language.
 
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TeaCider said:
Two people with the same symptoms, one vaccinated and one unvaccinated, will spread equally at the peak of infection.

But vaccinated people on average have fewer symptoms, are infected for less time, and are less likely to be infected.

There's no comparison.
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There is no compaison when discussing the personal benefits. The protection offered by vaccination to others, isn't nearly as effective as we were led to believe. It has some benefits when it comes to transmission, but not a lot.

For that reason alone we shouldn't be damning the unvaccinated.
 
TeaCider said:
Two people with the same symptoms, one vaccinated and one unvaccinated, will spread equally at the peak of infection.

But vaccinated people on average have fewer symptoms, are infected for less time, and are less likely to be infected.

There's no comparison.
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Symptoms are irrelevant, you can have COVID and spread it regardless.
By Having Fewer/Unnoticeable Symptoms it makes the short extra length of time infected by unvaccinated irrelevant as the vaccinated have unknowingly already spread it around others.

"are less likely to be infected" - PHE just does not support this at all.
 
DanJC said:
Symptoms are irrelevant, you can have COVID and spread it regardless.
By Having Fewer/Unnoticeable Symptoms it makes the short extra length of time infected by unvaccinated irrelevant as the vaccinated have unknowingly already spread it around others.

"are less likely to be infected" - PHE just does not support this at all.
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Symptoms aren't irrelevant at all and it's basic common sense to understand that.

Somebody coughing everywhere is going to spread Covid far more readily than somebody without symptoms.


www.gov.uk

REACT study shows fully vaccinated are three times less likely to be infected

The latest REACT-1 study findings from Imperial College London and Ipsos MORI show COVID-19 infection rates are three times lower for double vaccinated people.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

Three times less likely to be infected, but keep trying to spread your idiotic misinformation.
You are part of the problem.
 
DanJC said:
Symptoms are irrelevant, you can have COVID and spread it regardless.
By Having Fewer/Unnoticeable Symptoms it makes the short extra length of time infected by unvaccinated irrelevant as the vaccinated have unknowingly already spread it around others.

"are less likely to be infected" - PHE just does not support this at all.
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Bollox.

If you are coughing (a symptom) you are far more likely to spread covid than someone who is asymptomatic.
 
sherlock1969 said:
I'm saying that pre-covid, a trip to the supermarket was not a game of Russian Roulette for those people.

You are just being a pr*ck now to avoid answering questions, and that really says all I need to know about you.

You utter, selfish ****.
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I'm medically exempt and you have no basis of my health and to make such assumptions of claim of how selfish I am being. Yes it was.

Name calling, really? I certainly will not be resorting to that. I'll stop engaging with you from now on if its for the best for you.
 
There does seem to be a decent into name calling on covid threads.

For the record, if you have covid symptoms you should have been tested and isolating, so I am not sure the argument that the infected are coughing over everyone holds much water. It is much more likely if you are asymptomatic that you have not been tested, therefore out and about and spreading the virus, albeit unbeknown.
 
TeaCider said:
Symptoms aren't irrelevant at all and it's basic common sense to understand that.

Somebody coughing everywhere is going to spread Covid far more readily than somebody without symptoms.


www.gov.uk

REACT study shows fully vaccinated are three times less likely to be infected

The latest REACT-1 study findings from Imperial College London and Ipsos MORI show COVID-19 infection rates are three times lower for double vaccinated people.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

Three times less likely to be infected, but keep trying to spread your idiotic misinformation.
You are part of the problem.
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Dear me, you are certainly a great spin merchant i'll give you that. You are certainly the whole problem, never forget.
 
DanJC said:
Dear me, you are certainly a great spin merchant i'll give you that. You are certainly the whole problem, never forget.
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There's absolutely no spin.

Willingly unvaccinated people are prolonging the pandemic for everyone.
 
TeaCider said:
There's absolutely no spin.

Unvaccinated people are prolonging the pandemic for everyone.
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Rubbish, Gibraltar proves that is simply not true. I'd imagine you will be calling Double Jabbed selfish for not being Treble Jabbed soon enough.
 
DanJC said:
Rubbish, Gibraltar proves that is simply not true. I'd imagine you will be calling Double Jabbed selfish for not being Treble Jabbed soon enough.
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It proves nothing of the sort.

People can still have whatever celebrations they want, there just won't be any state ran ones.

Cases are up all over Europe, including in Spain, from where a significant number enter Gibraltar every day, primarily because of the unvaccinated.

I absolutely will call anyone who has the chance to receive a booster jab and turns it down selfish, yes.
I'll be getting my booster the earliest day possible, and I've had both jabs and Covid.
It's the right thing to do and only idiots and the selfish would argue otherwise.
 
TeaCider said:
It proves nothing of the sort.

People can still have whatever celebrations they want, there just won't be any state ran ones.

Cases are up all over Europe, including in Spain, from where a significant number enter Gibraltar every day, primarily because of the unvaccinated.

I absolutely will call anyone who has the chance to receive a booster jab and turns it down selfish, yes.
I'll be getting my booster the earliest day possible, and I've had both jabs and Covid.
It's the right thing to do and only idiots and the selfish would argue otherwise.
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We can go back and forth but I still disagree with you.

So by that admission from Europe they are still are as likely to be infected regardless of the fact they are vaccinated at a rate where it does not make much of a difference. If you tested positive tomorrow you would have to isolate immediately, an admission you provide just as much of a threat as the unvaccinated. Dont blame me, they are the Government guidelines you champion.

Anyone who advocates are two tier society (not saying you said this) for an injection that does not prevent transmission and only lessens symptoms are the selfish and foolish ones in my eyes.
 
DanJC said:
Rubbish, Gibraltar proves that is simply not true. I'd imagine you will be calling Double Jabbed selfish for not being Treble Jabbed soon enough.
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As said earlier in the thread Gibraltar has a theoretical vaccine rate way above 100% which is of course impossible. Gibraltar has a resident population of about 30000 but a lot of transient people who work there but live over the border in spain. You have to assume that a lot of people from Spain have got one or both of their jab whilst in Gibraltar. I don't see what repeating stuff about Gibraltar proves? It really proves nothing.
 
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