Shamima Begum on GMTV

Smoggle said:
She was 15, old enough to know right from wrong. But ok, young enough to allow for making mistakes, even if joining Islamic State is at the top end of ‘youthful exuberance’.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but she was 19 when interviewed and she said she did not regret joining IS and was pretty nonchalant about beheadings and atrocities against Yazidis?

I still think she’s our problem and if she’s changed then that is absolutely fantastic (even if it won’t give comfort to the many victims of IS), but I’m not going to lose any sleep over her or her fate.
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At 15 your classed as a child, would you say thise groomed at 15 by those paedophile gangs knew what they were doing?
She should be brought back and face our justice system, find out what she Knows and face punishment according to her convictions.
The only reason she's not been allowed back is because this government need to appeal to the flog then and hang them brigade to stay in power.
I don't have any time for begum iam more concerned about us as a nation doing what's right and legal.
 
What exactly has she done that is so damaging and requiring mob justice?

I'm acutely aware that I did some really stupid things when I was 15 which would horrify my parents and also had ideas which I know are abhorrent, but I was 15 and a few years later I was completely different. Do we not all go through a rebellious faze in our teens and do stupid things that we would later regret?
 
Brian Marwood said:
What exactly has she done that is so damaging and requiring mob justice?
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We don't know.

It was put to Javid that there was evidence of her stitching Suicide Bombers into vests and being a member of HISBA, The morality police.
Javid said that it was much, much worse than that and that he had seen the evidence.
 
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jam69 said:
At 15 your classed as a child, would you say thise groomed at 15 by those paedophile gangs knew what they were doing?
She should be brought back and face our justice system, find out what she Knows and face punishment according to her convictions.
The only reason she's not been allowed back is because this government need to appeal to the flog then and hang them brigade to stay in power.
I don't have any time for begum iam more concerned about us as a nation doing what's right and legal.
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There’s a big difference between joining IS and sexual grooming and I don’t think it’s a fair comparison for the victims of sexual predators.

Also her activities and comments as an adult are dubious. However, apart from the grooming comparison I completely agree with the rest of your post.
 
Lets get her back to the UK and on big brother or love island or something, maybe with Tommy Robinson?

If you don't do it channel 5 will.

Monkey tennis?
 
Smoggle said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but she was 19 when interviewed and she said she did not regret joining IS and was pretty nonchalant about beheadings and atrocities against Yazidis?
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Yes, she was 19 when she gave that interview but just to give the other side of that story (and I've no way of knowing whether this is true) she said that at that time, the camp was still being controlled by "psychotic ISIS women" and she was afraid of the possible repercussions if she showed anything less than full support for ISIS.
 
Liamo said:
Yes, she was 19 when she gave that interview but just to give the other side of that story (and I've no way of knowing whether this is true) she said that at that time, the camp was still being controlled by "psychotic ISIS women" and she was afraid of the possible repercussions if she showed anything less than full support for ISIS.
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Which is why - unless Javid’s evidence is true and returning her is too unpalatable* - she should be brought here to answer for what she has done.

*although if it is true and there’s evidence, surely that’s enough to jail her here for many years?
 
Wiseman_Vaughn said:
Why should she be tried here at all?

Why not let the Kurds/Yazidis try her?
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Because she's a British citizen?

Regardless of your views on her situation, the fact that this government can essentially leave someone stateless is a very dangerous precedent to set
 
People refer to 'crimes committed' in the past tense. These people are still at war with us, and have no wish to negotiate peace. It is not a Nuremberg Trials situation. The lawyers must wait for their big payday.
 
JM14 said:
Because she's a British citizen?

Regardless of your views on her situation, the fact that this government can essentially leave someone stateless is a very dangerous precedent to set
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It was an honest question - honest!

But take say, Prince Andrew - His alleged crime(s) took place in the US and they want him to be tried there - not here.

Not the same but you know what I mean.
 
I caught a glimpse of the interview and immediately thought she's obviously been given advice to make herself look Western. But for the destruction of the so-called Caliphate she would almost certainly be still with ISIS with no interest in the old life in London.

Whilst I don't agree that any Government can just remove a citizenship, it would be interesting to hear what the government know about her.
 
Nero said:
I caught a glimpse of the interview and immediately thought she's obviously been given advice to make herself look Western. But for the destruction of the so-called Caliphate she would almost certainly be still with ISIS with no interest in the old life in London.

Whilst I don't agree that any Government can just remove a citizenship, it would be interesting to hear what the government know about her.
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Definitely more than me and you and the rest of the general public know that's for certain.

@JM14 Wasn't ISIS' ultimate goal to create its own country with its own rules? Therefore doesn't that make her a citizen of ISIS by default?
 
Some people only last week we're up in arms and defending Bola saying he was only 14 and a child at the time he did what he did, and no way should he be held responsible, as at that age, we all do things that when we get older and more mature we wouldn't.

Now they are saying someone who is 15 is totally responsible. Different extremes in terms of incidents but so is radicalisation if that is what has happened.
 
Corco65 said:
Some people only last week we're up in arms and defending Bola saying he was only 14 and a child at the time he did what he did, and no way should he be held responsible, as at that age, we all do things that when we get older and more mature we wouldn't.

Now they are saying someone who is 15 is totally responsible. Different extremes in terms of incidents but so is radicalisation if that is what has happened.
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Joining a death cult is miles away from daft tweets. Not even a comparison worth making.

Most people on this thread seem to have little sympathy for Begum, but want her to return here to face justice - not for leaving home at 15, but the things she did after into adulthood. Stripping her citizenship is a dangerous path.

If she was groomed or coerced it would be useful to find out where, how, why and to what extent, but unless something extraordinary comes to light I still doubt she’ll get much sympathy from most people.
 
Smoggle said:
Joining a death cult is miles away from daft tweets. Not even a comparison worth making.

Most people on this thread seem to have little sympathy for Begum, but want her to return here to face justice - not for leaving home at 15, but the things she did after into adulthood. Stripping her citizenship is a dangerous path.

If she was groomed or coerced it would be useful to find out where, how, why and to what extent, but unless something extraordinary comes to light I still doubt she’ll get much sympathy from most people.
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I am referring to the age principle that people advocate, not the rights and wrongs of either case.
 
Corco65 said:
I am referring to the age principle that people advocate, not the rights and wrongs of either case.
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I get that, but I disagree with how it’s framed. If a 14 year old gets caught sending abusive tweets or whatever it was they should be punished as a 14 year old, dredging up old posts to punish an adult is largely pointless unless the adult still posts like that or is unrepentant - some quiet advice to delete old posts should suffice, but I digress…

Like I said before, Begum should be punished for things she has done as an adult if a court proves she has done wrong. If she had been stopped before reaching IS or managed to return as a 15 year old she should and would have been treated according to her age. It’s what she’s done after leaving that’s the problem, which is different to an adult being punished for something they did as a child as in the case of Bola.
 
Smoggle said:
I get that, but I disagree with how it’s framed. If a 14 year old gets caught sending abusive tweets or whatever it was they should be punished as a 14 year old, dredging up old posts to punish an adult is largely pointless unless the adult still posts like that or is unrepentant - some quiet advice to delete old posts should suffice, but I digress…

Like I said before, Begum should be punished for things she has done as an adult if a court proves she has done wrong. If she had been stopped before reaching IS or managed to return as a 15 year old she should and would have been treated according to her age. It’s what she’s done after leaving that’s the problem, which is different to an adult being punished for something they did as a child as in the case of Bola.
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I disagree, either under 18s are all treated in the same way (the severity of what they have done will be dealt with in the relative proceedings) or everyone under 18 are all treated as adults for what they do.

For me the principle remains the same, picking and choosing on the basis of who they are or what they have done is not natural justice.
 
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