Brexit , the negatives

Redwurzel said:
What amazes me (and I suppose fascinates me to some extent) is how so many people have what is commonly called black and white opinions, coming from both viewpoints on the EU membership question. One side is 100% correct and the other side 100% wrong. Some people then aggressively defend their position against those that disagree with a sort of territorial gusto. So anyone who disagrees it appears in any form at all is their enemy. This obviously provokes a counter reaction. Some appear to revel in the conflict pf opinionsand in a way want diasgreement and provoke it.

Such scenarios have existed before, usually in war time. A classic one for me was Stalin and Trotsky. Both Bolsheviks, but Stalin exiled Trotsky and then had him killed in Mexico. In Ireland the IRA killed Michael Collins who had done alot to get the British out of what is now the Republic of Ireland. Really he was one of their own, but they must have hated him alot to to kill him for agreeing to the creation of Northern Ireland and the Irish Free State. BREXIT is not as extreme hopefuly no one will kill anyone, but I pick up vibes that there is a form of hatred with a lot of talk about them and us.
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This is, basically, nonsense. False equivalence. The problem isn't that opinions are binary or that as a consequence that tribalism exists on both sides. That is an absolute cop out and then to try and draw a comparison with times of war laughable. The fundamental problem has its roots in the same place that leads the BBC to have an expert scientist and a fringe crackpot on the same panel to ensure 'balance'. There aren't just opinions on both sides that are polarised. There are facts, evidence and real time events on the one hand versus an empty and baseless opinion on the other. They aren't equals. My fact is not the same as your opinion. Therefore to characterize it in that way either betrays complete ignorance or, more likely, disingenuity.

The reference to the IRA is also ironic given the likely GFA consequences that are going to follow.
 
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Centralscrutinizer said:
Too much hate is directed at members of the public who, in good faith and for all sorts of spurious reasons, voted leave. The criticism should be directed towards the liers, fantasists and chancers - BloJo, Farage, Vote Leave, The Press etc who orchestrated it.
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I agree, but not in relation to those that were duped but continue to refuse to acknowledge reality.
 
Adi_Dem said:
This is, basically, nonsense. False equivalence. The problem isn't that opinions are binary or that as a consequence that tribalism exists on both sides. That is an absolute cop out and then to try and draw a comparison with times of war laughable. The fundamental problem has its roots in the same place that leads the BBC to have an expert scientist and a fringe crackpot on the same panel to ensure 'balance'. There aren't just opinions on both sides that are polarised. There are facts, evidence and real time events on the one hand versus an empty and baseless opinion on the other. They aren't equals. My fact is not the same as your opinion. Therefore to characterize it in that way either betrays complete ignorance or, more likely, disingenuity.

The reference to the IRA is also ironic given the likely GFA consequences that are going to follow.
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Brexits already done...Get over it !
Nothing you say can change it...it's pointless !
 
Nobby_Barnes said:
Brexits already done...Get over it !
Nothing you say can change it...it's pointless !
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Brexit isn't done. If you think that it is then you don't understand either the nature of the trade agreement we have struck, the nature of our exit from the EU or the various grace periods and outstanding negotiations that run through both. It is the approach of a child to say 'it's done, get over it''.

Besides, following that inane logic nothing should ever be discussed. For example, we played Watford yesterday. The game is over and it can't be changed so presumably you do not believe anyone should discuss it?
 
Adi_Dem said:
Brexit isn't done. If you think that it is then you don't understand either the nature of the trade agreement we have struck, the nature of our exit from the EU or the various grace periods and outstanding negotiations that run through both. It is the approach of a child to say 'it's done, get over it''.

Besides, following that inane logic nothing should ever be discussed. For example, we played Watford yesterday. The game is over and it can't be changed so presumably you do not believe anyone should discuss it?
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Yeah we can discuss the Watford game but them we move on to the next one...
Some posters are absolutely obsessed with Brexit and they are stuck like a broken record...it's over, we've voted to leave and we are leaving the EU...like I say get over it! Barnsley next btw 👍
 
Nobby_Barnes said:
it's over, we've voted to leave and we are leaving the EU...like I say get over it!
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And as I said: no, I won't. I am certain that most leave voters would be delighted if it would just go away quietly. But it won't. It will only get louder.
 
https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2021-0...eams-of-retiring-abroad-Zc0spBTQNq/index.html

A news story from 6th April 2021:

"Brexit itself, when it was first started, was going to be brilliant because I honestly believe that Britain should stay Britain and we run by ourselves," says Joe. But he had no idea of how Brexit was to impact his dream of retiring abroad.
"Nobody explained or probably thought about people like ourselves. There was nobody looking after it or telling us, they forgot about the people abroad."
If he could vote again in the Brexit referendum, Joe says he'd vote differently knowing how things turned out.
"There's no way I would vote to go for it, because it's harming me and my future, what I want to do with what time we have left, me and my wife together, in this sort of surroundings."
Now, he hopes to see a future in which UK travelers are allowed to stay in European countries for at least 180 days without a visa.
 
Adi_Dem said:
And as I said: no, I won't. I am certain that most leave voters would be delighted if it would just go away quietly. But it won't. It will only get louder.
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I do find it amazing we still have people like Nobby around thinking it's over. He must know deep down it's not? He can't be that dumb. So what's his motivation for pretending it is? What drives someone to argue that blue is red? Especially when it makes them look ignorant and selfish in the process. I would genuinely love to get into the mind of these people. What is the thought process of seeing something causing problem after problem and pretending it isn't? It's a really weird thing to me.
 
SmallTown said:
I do find it amazing we still have people like Nobby around thinking it's over. He must know deep down it's not? He can't be that dumb. So what's his motivation for pretending it is? What drives someone to argue that blue is red? Especially when it makes them look ignorant and selfish in the process. I would genuinely love to get into the mind of these people. What is the thought process of seeing something causing problem after problem and pretending it isn't? It's a really weird thing to me.
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I think it's really simple. When someone drops a *******, they want the consequences to go away quickly and quietly and for people to move on rather than have that constant reminder. Leave voters want everyone to move on and get over it because every day there are reminders about just how stupid a mistake has been made.
 
'WE ARE LEAVING THE EU'

There you go guys, it's a fact...read it over and over again if you like it won't change 😂
 
Piccadilly Day Tripper said:
https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2021-0...eams-of-retiring-abroad-Zc0spBTQNq/index.html

A news story from 6th April 2021:

"Brexit itself, when it was first started, was going to be brilliant because I honestly believe that Britain should stay Britain and we run by ourselves," says Joe. But he had no idea of how Brexit was to impact his dream of retiring abroad.
"Nobody explained or probably thought about people like ourselves. There was nobody looking after it or telling us, they forgot about the people abroad."
If he could vote again in the Brexit referendum, Joe says he'd vote differently knowing how things turned out.
"There's no way I would vote to go for it, because it's harming me and my future, what I want to do with what time we have left, me and my wife together, in this sort of surroundings."
Now, he hopes to see a future in which UK travelers are allowed to stay in European countries for at least 180 days without a visa.
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This is a 'news' story from CGTN, a subsidiary of China Central Television, a state-owned media organisation under the direct control of the Publicity Department of the CCP. I'm sure there probably is a 'Joe' equivalent out there somewhere, but I doubt it's this 'Joe'.
 
Adi_Dem said:
I think it's really simple. When someone drops a *******, they want the consequences to go away quickly and quietly and for people to move on rather than have that constant reminder. Leave voters want everyone to move on and get over it because every day there are reminders about just how stupid a mistake has been made.
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I get that. I understand why they are embarrassed I just don't understand the doubling down. Denying something as its happening? It makes them look really stupid? Why would you deliberately make yourself look stupid? It's odd behaviour. Maybe they are masochists and like to humiliate themselves? Not sure really
 
Centralscrutinizer said:
Too much hate is directed at members of the public who, in good faith and for all sorts of spurious reasons, voted leave. The criticism should be directed towards the liers, fantasists and chancers - BloJo, Farage, Vote Leave, The Press etc who orchestrated it.
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52% of those who voted were very open to the message though and bothered to get out and vote.

The real disappointment is the 10 million who obviously didn’t want to leave (or they would have positively voted for change) but couldn’t bother their backsides to vote to remain.

These are the ones who created the gap for the chancers and opportunists like Farage and Bunter to wriggle through.
 
Nobby_Barnes said:
'WE ARE LEAVING THE EU'

There you go guys, it's a fact...read it over and over again if you like it won't change 😂
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The response of a child.

Incidentally, we aren't 'leaving', we have left. And much like everything in the political space, it is there to be discussed and campaigned for or against. For example, the campaign to leave itself. When we joined the EU did the debate end i.e. 'we are in the EU, get over it'? Of course it didn't. Taken to its logical conclusion, we may as well not discuss anything or vote on anything and just stick with the status quo. it's been decided and so therefore it is. It's not only a really dim approach but it's also anti-democratic.

Honestly, I'd put the shovel down because you're making yourself look really stupid.
 
Adi_Dem said:
The response of a child.

Incidentally, we aren't 'leaving', we have left. And much like everything in the political space, it is there to be discussed and campaigned for or against. For example, the campaign to leave itself. When we joined the EU did the debate end i.e. 'we are in the EU, get over it'? Of course it didn't. Taken to its logical conclusion, we may as well not discuss anything or vote on anything and just stick with the status quo. it's been decided and so therefore it is. It's not only a really dim approach but it's also anti-democratic.

Honestly, I'd put the shovel down because you're making yourself look really stupid.
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Its the response of someone who's ready to move on...
if you want it your way...WE HAVE LEFT THE EU !
A child could understand...
 
Nobby_Barnes said:
Its the response of someone who's ready to move on...
if you want it your way...WE HAVE LEFT THE EU !
A child could understand...
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Nobody is stopping you moving on. I do understand why you'd want to. It's dead simple to move on in this context: just look at the thread title and if it is about Brexit don't read it and don't reply. Easy as that.

As usual, nothing of any substance just begging people to stop talking about it and 'move on'. A child could understand indeed.
 
I’ve no doubt the Tory activists will be going around Hartlepool now saying a vote for Labour is a vote to rejoin the EU.

Never underestimate the lying capabilities of the Tories whose main reason for existing is to stay in power, if they think this will swing the day to a largely uninformed electorate then that is what they will do.

Labour need to bang the drum on the threat to the NHS, rising unemployment and public spending cuts post Covid, oh and coping with the shambolic aftermath of the Tory Brexit.

There is plenty to go at.
 
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