I’m not ignoring your first three paragraphs at all I simply said earlier in the thread that I got the distinct impression that people on here thought British patriotism is bad yet others are fine. You’ve confirmed it. As for the difference between the two I assume you are linking it to the evils of the British empire? Well fair enough but not one person that’s breathing now had anything to do with a relic that ceased to exist the best part of seventy five years ago. You can’t keep the sackcloth and ashes on forever.