Humpty
Well-known member
Given your self confessed expertise in football accounting, I find it strange that you expected anything less.
Steve Gibson's fmttm Q and A - Thursday
- Thread starter fmttmadmin
- Start date
Valid question surely. The guy is getting on
indeedido
Well-known member
We don't know the deal offered by the Chinese, he has never disclosed it and did not detail it on thursday night at all.
Potential new owners are not all the same.
Any new owner however would want to pay the least they can for control.
It is true that some would be hoping to do what Gibson is trying to do and squeeze into the Prem, then spend little to stay there. It is easy to see such an owner tiring quickly of funding losses in the Prem and then inevitable big losses in the Championship. There is then an existential risk quickly developing.
However, it is also possible that new owners can see more potential in Middlesbrough FC than I believe Gibson does, invest more heavily in a squad to get up and stay up, with the club then becoming financially secure. It is possible to see different leadership doing better.
Crucial to me are competence, ambition and financial muscle.
New owners might have all three, they might have none.
Exactly the same applies to existing owners.
The Coates family at Stoke certainly have the ambition and financial muscle but clearly lack competence. They have not made the top half in the Championship since being relegated six years ago after disastrous player recruitment in the prem created massive debt.
Tony Bloom at Brighton has all three in spades. You don't have to be a nation state, but its very hard as a moderately wealthy individual.
It comes down to opinion where you see Steve Gibson at Middlesbrough.
I understand why some people think there is no possible better alternative. They over-estimate Gibson and/ or fear we end up with a Birmingham fiasco.
I believe Gibson is committed to the club, but only if he is in absolute control. My biggest frustration with him is not over his wealth, or what he has put in; he can provide the funding within FFP to get the club up.
My concern is over competence given the record since 2009 and his acceptance of prolonged Championship status so long as he has control.
I think Steve thinks only he can own and operate the club. I don't think he can accept anybody else doing it.
He is entitled to think so and experience the consequences of absolute power given his resources and capability.
As I have long argued, unless somebody emerges that wants to take the club on, and can pass Gibson's quite particular criteria/be deemed worthy to sell to, then frankly we are stuck where we are and with each other.
Sadly for me that means a stubborn defensive bloke pouring the millions he can afford into a club drifting around in the Championship.
It is better than a lot of clubs will have, but I do personally think our club can be more.
His approach on thursday night re-inforced my view of him. Happy to be asked about his favourite memories, happy to explain the obvious financial pressures, happy to accept the acclaim, happy to criticise others; not so happy to be challenged, however gently.
I maintain I applaud him for thursday night and hope he continues the dialogue with supporters and overall it was a successful event - hats off Rob as I originally posted.
indeedido
Well-known member
Self confessed expertise - where have I ever said I am an expert on anything?
1finny
Well-known member
Really enjoyed reading that.
Corco65
Well-known member
Of course there are other ways the club could be run or different decisions made, it's all about opinions and perspectives. It seems you would like to gamble with a new owner which is fine thats your view, a lot of people are happy to stick with the man who has provided the club with huge success compared to before his involvement. The success which he was at the heart of, is then used against him by the those with entitled expectations of where we should be. That's not how it works unless you are one of the super wealthy clubs who basically buy their success or the very occasional outlier for the odd season or so, there are no guarantees when money is pumped in. I'm grateful that someone has wanted to gamble with their millions for as long as they have, and I certainly don't expect some else to come in and gamble/waste even more.
18MFC76
Well-known member
Hikes to walk ups? Crazy really given the fact that they're already sky high. He needs to remember that a lot more games are going to be televised next season. He could end up losing revenue on both fronts (SC and walk up) if he's not careful.
That success was 20 years ago. It's a completely different game these days and he's still running the club like one in the 90s. Smaller clubs than us have overtaken us by being more professional/strategic and the teams that were similar to us or bigger have just got further away.
Our success came from outspending other teams. We can't do that anymore and since the goalposts moved and he was no longer rich enough to compete financially we have had no success. Our only small bit of success in those years is when he got outside help from Kenyon. Any other time where he's been the only one making decisions has gone nowhere.
I don't think we need a new owner but we need new ideas and we need to be more professional. The answer to being rubbish at marketing because we can't afford better marketing is nonsense. You get out what you put in. It's not about just spending money, it's investing in things that will generate income in the long run. The way he runs the merchandise side of things, ticket prices etc all smacks of really basic short-term thinking.
1finny
Well-known member
That’s a fair way to look at things.
Surely it’s also fair to question/think about what needs to happen to move the club forward.
There is presumably common ground on the playing front that for 15 years or so we have, at best, bumbled around championship mediocrity.
Couple that with a pricing policy which seems to take advantage of a committed set of fans whilst alienating others.
On that basis it seems fair to look for somethings to change.
It could be, as Nano has said, ‘new ideas’ or it could be more transformational with a change of ownership.
The reality is - it doesn’t matter a jot what the fans/community think.
Other than to have a conversation and share views on here..
Am not sure you will see massive price rises.
Backofthenet
New member
Not a fan of our chairman by any chance?
To let everyone know the final total raised from the Steve Gibson Q and A night for Henry Barber's Cancer treatment was £650.
Thank you to everyone that contributed with tickets and donations on the night.
Thank you to everyone that contributed with tickets and donations on the night.
Primus84
Well-known member
Well done Rob, a really deserving recipient.
Am not sure how much MFC Foundation raised on the night for the raffle but they said they had taken a lot.
So, very good charity fundraising evening.
Ian Bairds Ears
Well-known member
Great post
Post of the year for me.
festa5
Well-known member
From the sounds of it Gibson definitely harbours some resentment towards fans about how much he's putting in to keep the club afloat. "how dare they complain about ticket prices after everything I've done for them" is the vibe I'm getting (and have had for a while tbh).
Definitely out of touch. Obviously credit where it's due for the money he's put in.
BUT
He can afford it (and still afford to, say, build a pub in the garden of his mansion). Some fans are having to make a lot of sacrifices to go to the game. Never mind building a pub, some sacrifice going on holiday or more.
And it's his club, he's the owner. He's not primarily doing it for the fans, he's doing it for himself because he is a fan and it matters to him. Our interests are aligned but he's shown time and time again he's not really that bothered about the rest of us. So a bit rich to moan about everyone being ungrateful as he takes his place in the best seat in the house every week.
He treats fans a lot like customers. Don't moan when they start acting like them.
Definitely out of touch. Obviously credit where it's due for the money he's put in.
BUT
He can afford it (and still afford to, say, build a pub in the garden of his mansion). Some fans are having to make a lot of sacrifices to go to the game. Never mind building a pub, some sacrifice going on holiday or more.
And it's his club, he's the owner. He's not primarily doing it for the fans, he's doing it for himself because he is a fan and it matters to him. Our interests are aligned but he's shown time and time again he's not really that bothered about the rest of us. So a bit rich to moan about everyone being ungrateful as he takes his place in the best seat in the house every week.
He treats fans a lot like customers. Don't moan when they start acting like them.
BoroMart
Well-known member
I appreciate everything he has and continues to do for the club, but I've felt distanced from his socio-political stance for quite some time. I've cooled towards him as a person. He's become one of those inward looking old men, that is bothered about how everything in the world affects him, but the troubles of everyone else appear fairly periphery. The principles of fighting for his fellow working man as a labour councilor were abandoned, for a Brexit, Tory, austerity and Houchen grift, under some pretense that having our own rules, and giving the keys to deliver to these charlatans would see some trickle down economics to the people.
He's not that young fresh-faced chairman anymore, and the days of Gibson's chairmanship are probably winding down, nothing imminent, but we're in the last decade. I suspect he'll sell up if he gets us up and establishes us again. The offers will come in, there will be a lot, because premier league clubs don't go on the market very often. 38 years is a long, long time, and the football, social, and political landscapes have changed dramatically, I hope he's got the drive, energy and compassion to see this through, I think he has, when all is said and done he deserves to go out with us at the top table.
Brian Marwood
Well-known member
The problem though, is that alongside this you will have a manager or Director of football who is going to spend that financial muscle on behalf of the owner in order to achieve all of the things that you have mentioned. The Championship and below is littered with clubs who have had this ambition and ultimately failed, I will name Bolton and Portsmouth as two glaring examples.
Outside of the top 5 or 6 six clubs in the Premier leage there are only two who have had a prolonged period up there and that is Everton and Crystal Palace, the former clinging on by a thread year after year despite spending eye watering amounts. If Palace lose their star players in the summer can't you evisage them struggling nearer the bottom of the league?
Look at Man Utd and Chelsea, despite the money they have spent they linger closer to Luton than Arsenal in terms of points.
Crucial to all of the things you mention is also an element of luck. Luck in getting a manager that can spend wisely and also luck that those crucial players that you bring in at great expense to keep you in Premier league both stay fit and deliver on the pitch.
It's not crystal clear to me the model that you want to see implemented, spend to get up and spend even more to stay up isn't a model that works over a prolonged period, for most clubs. As at some point within a 10 year window unless you pile in Newcastle types of investment you are going to face a tricky season and relegation, then you're in trouble unless you bounce straight back which is another challenge in itself and even you do, you will lose so much money in that season of return that unless you have bottomless pockets you won't have the funds to invest sufficiently again when promoted.
And then on top of all of this is the impatience of fans, just look at West Ham over the past two seasons, for example. 9th place, 49 points, success in Europe and the manager is being hounded out. You see this repeated often. Even this success isn't enough and the fans want 'the cheque book out' which creates a bigger potental circle of debt.
This dream of getting up and staying up is a poisoned chalice for all involved and almost certain to end in failure.
I was handed a piece of paper at the end of the Q and A documented by a fly me to the moon writer, George.
Steve Gibson was asked 67 questions by supporters on the night. He may have deflected one or two but for the most part he gave a very candid response. The questions came from raised hands, Liam racing around with the microphone and more anonymously scribbled on paper and handed to Liam or myself. It was as open as it could be and back in the Legends Lounge last night I bumped into a couple of those present that night saying just how much they had enjoyed the evening. Would it be repeated.
I hope so and hopefully we will also be able to secure Kieran Scott or even Michael Carrick next time. And once again raising a lot of money for a charity or two.
But room capacity is limited so the tickets are always going to fly.
Steve Gibson was asked 67 questions by supporters on the night. He may have deflected one or two but for the most part he gave a very candid response. The questions came from raised hands, Liam racing around with the microphone and more anonymously scribbled on paper and handed to Liam or myself. It was as open as it could be and back in the Legends Lounge last night I bumped into a couple of those present that night saying just how much they had enjoyed the evening. Would it be repeated.
I hope so and hopefully we will also be able to secure Kieran Scott or even Michael Carrick next time. And once again raising a lot of money for a charity or two.
But room capacity is limited so the tickets are always going to fly.