Zarah Sultana To Start new party with Jeremy Corbyn.

Change happens. It's an inevitable fact of life. Who would have thought in the mid 70-s when social democracy was the prevailing political fashion that we would be where we are now. But Thatcherism/neoliberalism is just a fashion too and it will pass. There seems to a attitude among a number of posters that things will never change and that we should all just suck it up and be grateful that we dont have a Tory/Reform government. All that Blairism/Starmerism does is to entrench the Thatcherite notion of TINA - there is no alternative. We need people to get out there and campaign for change. A new party led by Corbyn and Sultana is a damn good start.
 
Scrote said:
He's 76. He lives in North London. How much do you expect his house should be worth? Centrist Labour actively plotted and worked against him and his attempt to get a Labour Government elected. Corbyn is an old-school social democrat of the type that should form the core of the centre of the Labour party.


You've mentioned Momentum being run by Jews before. What is your point?


The left did change things from within and look what happened. The centrists sabotaged the leadership. Why would anyone waste energy trying to fight the same battles?


Tell that to the Scandinavians.
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"Tell that to the Scandinavians."
You'd have to tell them they were socialist first, and get them to agree with you. Like I said "socialising the means of production" (the classic basic definition) has never worked. Social democratic parties have worked, but never where they have brought all the means of production under state control.
 
theboydom said:
"Tell that to the Scandinavians."
You'd have to tell them they were socialist first, and get them to agree with you. Like I said "socialising the means of production" (the classic basic definition) has never worked. Social democratic parties have worked, but never where they have brought all the means of production under state control.
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There is no need to bring ALL the means of production under state control.. State control should be Water, energy, transport, Health, communications, environment, waste disposal, education
 
Trug said:
There is no need to bring ALL the means of production under state control.. State control should be Water, energy, transport, Health, communications, environment, waste disposal, education
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Yes, I agree that not all the means of production should be under state control. But then that is not socialism :-)
 
Scrote said:
Largely pointless reading beyond paragraph 4 of section 1. There was no antisemitism crisis. It was a sham, created largely by the people working against the leader from inside the party. They've admitted it - and revelled in the chaos they wrought upon the UK.

The rest is interesting but doesn't look at the why - especially around Brexit policy.

As an historical document it has it's place in the academic record but it doesn't address my question:

Which idealist policies were unaffordable?

I would say renationalising railways, water and electricity and scrapping university fees whilst laudable were completely undeliverable. The cost for that was prohibitive and something the right wing press were immediately able to ridicule and attack Corbyn on as his ‘Marxist Manifesto’.
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Duffman said:
I would say renationalising railways, water and electricity and scrapping university fees whilst laudable were completely undeliverable. The cost for that was prohibitive and something the right wing press were immediately able to ridicule and attack Corbyn on as his ‘Marxist Manifesto’.
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Re-nationalisation is probably as easy as it gets politically. Where is the cost? Introduce legislation that stops franchises being renewed. Use the parlous financial state of the utilities as a reason. Use the energy crisis as a reason.

Considering it's a very popular policy I can't see why it would cause problems for a government to introduce.

University fees might be a harder sell but, again, it's not beyond the realms of possibility - at a practical level it's just a form of investment in the future.
 
Scrote said:
Re-nationalisation is probably as easy as it gets politically. Where is the cost? Introduce legislation that stops franchises being renewed. Use the parlous financial state of the utilities as a reason. Use the energy crisis as a reason.

Considering it's a very popular policy I can't see why it would cause problems for a government to introduce.

University fees might be a harder sell but, again, it's not beyond the realms of possibility - at a practical level it's just a form of investment in the future.
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The we cannot afford it line is absolute hokum. It's right up there with "there's no magic money tree" and "we have to balance the books". Think about the biggest debt we ever have - a mortgage. We are borrowing fantastic sums - several times our annual income. But we can afford it - why?.

1. Because in the first place, although we have borrowed a lot of money, we now own a valuable asset, worth more than the debt.
2. Because we are paying it off in affordable amounts over a long time period.
3. Because it is an investment - in the long run we will be better off in terms of our standard of living and financially.

If we didn't we would have to rent a home and pay rent - money that we never see again.

All of the above is true when it comes to nationalising public utilities. The money we pay to the private companies is like the rent. If we were paying the government it would be a lot less, it would go toward paying off the debt and when that is paid off any excess over and above the cost of provision would go to the treasury. At the end of the day, we the public would own these valuable assets.

The government doesn't actually need to borrow the money to do this, but that's a topic for another discussion.
 
Cogeur_le_Conq said:
I guess no-one watched this video as no-one has commented.

You will not be able to find another state on the planet which has such a brainwashed youth.

I encourage everyone to watch it and comment.
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I watched most of it and just found it utterly depressing.

The contributors to the video certainly have a warped sense of the world and there place within it.
 
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