Zarah Sultana To Start new party with Jeremy Corbyn.

I dunno, the older I get the more I see politics as a test of competence rather than a test of ideology.

There’s only so much anyone can do with the tools they’re given, so I’d rather employ people who are efficient and capable to do the job, ideally they’ve got a bit of compassion and perspective of real life as well.

That way there’s less waste and therefore better outcomes - at its fundamental level running a government is a big game of, how do you spend tax money and project manage. Just give me the smartest, most effective people and I’m happy.
MolteniArcore said:
I’m still not buying the thought that Reform could win an election.
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Same, I don’t see it. There’s so many loons and chancers and unserious people, I think they’d crumble at the slightest bit of media scrutiny. Farage will always be popular but below him it’s a collection of cranks and opportunists. Polls at the minute are a protest vote, it’s always like that until about a year before an election.
 
jonny_greenings_sock said:
I dunno, the older I get the more I see politics as a test of competence rather than a test of ideology.

There’s only so much anyone can do with the tools they’re given, so I’d rather employ people who are efficient and capable to do the job, ideally they’ve got a bit of compassion and perspective of real life as well.

That way there’s less waste and therefore better outcomes - at its fundamental level running a government is a big game of, how do you spend tax money and project manage. Just give me the smartest, most effective people and I’m happy
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Whilst I agree to a certain extent, you're very quickly going to hit a problem whereby those effective competent people have their own ideologies - you therefore need to filter for the most effective and competent people that will buy into delivering your political vision.

Or you need a robust legal framework for dealing with people who actively work against it.

And let's not forget that the smartest bloke in the country™ delivered us Brexit.
 
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jonny_greenings_sock said:
I dunno, the older I get the more I see politics as a test of competence rather than a test of ideology.

There’s only so much anyone can do with the tools they’re given, so I’d rather employ people who are efficient and capable to do the job, ideally they’ve got a bit of compassion and perspective of real life as well.

That way there’s less waste and therefore better outcomes - at its fundamental level running a government is a big game of, how do you spend tax money and project manage. Just give me the smartest, most effective people and I’m happy.

Same, I don’t see it. There’s so many loons and chancers and unserious people, I think they’d crumble at the slightest bit of media scrutiny. Farage will always be popular but below him it’s a collection of cranks and opportunists. Polls at the minute are a protest vote, it’s always like that until about a year before an election.
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I think the opposite. For 75% of it then yes, it is mostly competence but there are big decisions to be made about who to prioritise spending on, who to raise taxes from and how do you do things fairly. In my opinion every £1 we spend should go towards doing the most good for the most people but there are clearly people with different opinions. I want someone who has an ideology who can then defend it when they make decisions.

This is one of Starmer's problems. He has no clear belief or ideology so when he introduces things like the WFA cut or raising taxes etc he can't justify it with reasoning because he doesn't have any. The backlash on the benefits cuts are from people that do have an ideology and don't believe in cutting benefits for people that need them. Someone with an ideology wouldn't have been daft enough to introduce that policy in the first place whereas someone like Boris Johnson could get away with it comfortably because he doesn't believe in a system that provides "handouts".
 
Angus said:
I was convinced Trump couldn’t get elected I was wrong. People need to avoid complacency at all times.
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I thought Trump would get in, both times. Over here though I think Reform’s popularity is more media driven than people driven. Reform gets clicks and views as people love and hate them. I have yet to see anything to suggest Farage will become PM.
 
Andy_W said:
Is their Nazi lot worse than Reform? I don't know much about them but they seem very rough/ bad.

Thing is over here the Tories and Reform lot would almost certainly team up, if the alternative was a Labour centre left/ Greens/ New Corbyn Party. I would hope the lib dems would go against the Tories, but after what they did in 2010 who knows.

PR generally suits when you're not winning (would have been good when the Tories were in for 14 years), but when you're not winning it doesn't suit.

Some of the Tories from before Brexit might have sided with the centrist/ centre left policies, but they wouldn't now, the ones left are all far right nutcases.

Current voting intention is:
26% Reform
17% Tory
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43% Total

3% SNP would they even team up?
24% Labour
10% Green
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37% Total

16% Lib Dem ??? Which side would they go on, or would they disappear in PR?

This could give the lib dems all the power, do we trust that?

With PR I don't think things would have been "as bad", but we can't rewind time, and having it now would also slow things down from heading back in the good direction. The time taken to get to the good direction will be long though, as we're in a deep hole.

I've got faith that the voting demographics will switch more left, but we're going to need some generation replacement first, could be a decade or two away.
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If you think voting demographics will switch more left, that would be true under PR as much as FPTP surely?

In which case how is PR any more risky of returning a right wing government?

(and besides that, if over 50% want a right wing government, as much as it would disgust me, that's surely what the country should get?)
 
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TeessideCleveland said:
In first past the post if reform get 10 votes and 5 other parties get 9 votes each reform get the seat
There are 4 years to stop them - and at the moment their chances are improving
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Yeah I know how it works.

If people become disillusioned with Converative and Labour and the only other option is ‘Reform’ then they will opt for that.

I think the Green Party missed a trick by not opening a door for socialists Labour MPs and voters.
 
From what I've read, it sounds like Sultana jumped the gun on the announcement to try and put herself front and centre in it and to push Corbyn in to hurrying up.

This is from somebody who's connected to them:

"Just had it confirmed that Corbyn didn’t agree to Zarah’s plan but announced him anyway without his consent, hence the surprise in Corbyn’s office and the time taken to release a statement.

I think there is a massive irony in all this. Corbyn doesn’t want to be leader alongside Sultana and, for the most part, he wants to help build the new party but knows he’s getting on a bit and doesn’t want to be leader alone. Meanwhile, Sultana and the people around her want him to lead the thing (either with her or, for some, alone) out of a lack of imagination more than anything."
 
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Cogeur_le_Conq said:
I guess no-one watched this video as no-one has commented.

You will not be able to find another state on the planet which has such a brainwashed youth.

I encourage everyone to watch it and comment.
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Don't want to rehash Israel-Palestine in this thread, but I would say, after watching the first few, that your statement about 'brainwashed youth' could be easily applied to English youth, Rwandan youth or the youth of any other country in a conflict. I'm sure you are old enough to remember the massive prejudice against Irish in this country. Having a close neighbour who launches terrorist attacks on you will tend to polarise opinion pretty quickly...
 
She has not been a part of Labour since it became electable. Some people - these two in particular are born to be the eternal opposition. Shout, moan, complain create unaffordable idealist policies but will never have power. Corbyn can never be forgiven for the fact he knew he was unelectable but insisted out of vanity taking Labour into an election he couldn’t win and subsequently we got Johnson, Truss and Sunak. Enjoy further obscurity and leave Labour to govern
 
Duffman said:
She has not been a part of Labour since it became electable. Some people - these two in particular are born to be the eternal opposition. Shout, moan, complain create unaffordable idealist policies but will never have power. Corbyn can never be forgiven for the fact he knew he was unelectable but insisted out of vanity taking Labour into an election he couldn’t win and subsequently we got Johnson, Truss and Sunak. Enjoy further obscurity and leave Labour to govern
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Momentum had him over a barrel with the EU and the right wing of the Labour Party would allow him to take their fingers out of the pies., and in no way would they allow him to have the state of Palestine recognised. The first manifesto was golden.. they should have stuck with it and they should have made sure we had PPCs to back it up. Boris chose his side and got rid of anyone who opposed him.. he made sure he had the backing of UKIP/Brexit Party to get him over the line. Corbyn didn’t even have the Greens on side!

Golden opportunity wasted. One which we will never see again.. the powers that be make sure of it.
 
jonny_greenings_sock said:
The Jeremy Sultanas
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I have zero confidence in them being able to get the name right. I’ve heard ’Arise’ has been registered.. won’t take much to make a complete arsé out of it.

They need to unite the left into one single cohesive party.. Socialist Labour, The Workers Party, The Greens.. and then wrap that up into something that appeals to the electorate.

There’s me thinking that Kieran Scott had a job on his hands this summer!
 
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