Wow. Latest Hartlepool polling...

bear66 said:
Labour just need to present themselves as patriotic sleazebags, channeling tens of billions to their "friends" as policy number 1 in the next manifesto.
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Now we're getting somewhere, Bear I proclaim you as the new Alistair Campbell, just missed off the need for a leader that public feel is a bit of bumbling fool, but is funny when waving a flag on a zip wire
 
Pak_Doo_Ik said:
Now we're getting somewhere, Bear I proclaim you as the new Alistair Campbell, just missed off the need for a leader that public feel is a bit of bumbling fool, but is funny when waving a flag on a zip wire
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I was going to add that, but Labour would have to hire an old Etonian as leader, and they wouldn't be able to compete with the billions being given to them by the Tories. Perhaps a "Boris" lookalike wig for someone from a Peckham comprehensive will win over the voters.
 
GazC_MFC said:
You don’t understand voting jam. People who didn’t turn up fall under abstain. Are you saying all referundums should be invalid unless there is a 100% turnout.

leave won the referendum, no good banging on it only represented a smaller proportion, sounds like sour grapes
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Try reading it again, I never said we shouldn't implement the result, I accepted it from day one.
People who don't understand voting or maths are those who keep saying 52% of the country voted leave.
My main point is a MP has a duty to act in the best interests of all his constituents not just the minority that voted for brexit.
 
InglebyUTB said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1389479967344431106
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Been out posting Dr Paul leaflets this morning and saw a number of Labour St George’s stickers in windows, so I am hopeful. I think a lot will depend on 2 things any further revelations (got a sneaky feeling there’s some further well-times revelations to come) and as mundane as it sounds - the weather. If it’s chucking it down like it was this morning it will affect the turn out.
 
jam69 said:
Try reading it again, I never said we shouldn't implement the result, I accepted it from day one.
People who don't understand voting or maths are those who keep saying 52% of the country voted leave.
My main point is a MP has a duty to act in the best interests of all his constituents not just the minority that voted for brexit.
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Your just using nuance to prove a point. People don’t literally mean 52% of the country. It’s a turn of phrase to represent the referendum result.
 
Anyone voting Tory now needs to give their head a shake. You might possibly have been able to plead ignorance in the past, but if you're engaged enough to turn out and vote, you must be aware of the rampant corruption going on under the Johnson. They can barely be bothered to hide it. They're treating people like idiots and in many cases are seemingly right to do so.

If people aren't going to vote against that then shame on them. I hope they get what they deserve.

Even if people have convinced themselves they can't possibly vote labour for whatever reason, then vote for someone else. Anyone else. Or don't vote at all.
 
festa5 said:
Anyone voting Tory now needs to give their head a shake. You might possibly have been able to plead ignorance in the past, but if you're engaged enough to turn out and vote, you must be aware of the rampant corruption going on under the Johnson. They can barely be bothered to hide it. They're treating people like idiots and in many cases are seemingly right to do so.

If people aren't going to vote against that then shame on them. I hope they get what they deserve.

Even if people have convinced themselves they can't possibly vote labour for whatever reason, then vote for someone else. Anyone else. Or don't vote at all.
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Spot on - that would be my stance.
 
Colin Warnek said:
And yet I have heard on this forum think the 2019 red wall losses were all simply just ”Brexit votes” which will be easy for Starmer/Labour to win back. I don’t think so somehow.

These losses broke the “farmyard animal in a red rosette will get in ” tradition in lots of places, not just in the North but also Wales and other areas. And that tradition won’t come back for at least a generation.

What is to the Tories’ advantage is that the “farmyard animal in a blue rosette will get in” mentality in areas of the South hasn’t been touched at all by Brexit. Strengthened if anything,
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Some good points I thought the Labour votes would come back at Hartlepool, but its looking like they will fail to get the 45% of the area which is very working class. There are left wing candidates standing who are standing against the Labour Party in Hartlepool.

I disagree on the the last paragraph - Canterbury went Labour, plus Kensington and Putney have gone Labour recently - but the Tories have picked up more red wall seats than blue middle class areas. Where areas are doing well they tend to go Labour, areas struggling tend to go Tory - what does that say?

This board is pretty left of centre - I suspect there are a lot of people on here who have professional jobs or had them e.g buying £40k cars, well travelled etc
 
Redwurzel said:
Some good points I thought the Labour votes would come back at Hartlepool, but its looking like they will fail to get the 45% of the area which is very working class. There are left wing candidates standing who are standing against the Labour Party in Hartlepool.

I disagree on the the last paragraph - Canterbury went Labour, plus Kensington and Putney have gone Labour recently - but the Tories have picked up more red wall seats than blue middle class areas. Where areas are doing well they tend to go Labour, areas struggling tend to go Tory - what does that say?
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That jingoistic xenophobia works in areas of low immigration, fear of the unknown
 
Labour would have lost this seat in 2019 if not for the Brexit Party splitting the Tory vote.

This trend has been happening going back to 2015, UKIP done the same, Hartlepool has been splitting the right wing vote for some time now. Regardless of the reason's, Hartlepool has been voting for 3 parties and due to Brexit it's now only 2.

These are not simply lost Labour votes supposedly wanting to come home in a safe Labour seat. It's not been that way for the past 3 General Elections.
 
Redwurzel said:
Some good points I thought the Labour votes would come back at Hartlepool, but its looking like they will fail to get the 45% of the area which is very working class. There are left wing candidates standing who are standing against the Labour Party in Hartlepool.

I disagree on the the last paragraph - Canterbury went Labour, plus Kensington and Putney have gone Labour recently - but the Tories have picked up more red wall seats than blue middle class areas. Where areas are doing well they tend to go Labour, areas struggling tend to go Tory - what does that say?

This board is pretty left of centre - I suspect there are a lot of people on here who have professional jobs or had them e.g buying £40k cars, well travelled etc
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https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-2019-how-safe-is-your-mps-seat-11847672

A safe seats map from just before the 2019 GE. Note how many red were lost and how many blue are still blue.

There are so many safe Tory seats in the shires that haven’t even been laid a glove on since 1997.
 
JackG said:
Good article from Unherd - How the Left Lost Hartlpool
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Interesting article, but its worth pointing out that Keir Starmer supported a second referendum on leaving the European Union and is firmly in the European camp.
Its not accurate to say "...the left lost Hartlepool".
Had Keir been in the hot seat, Hartlepool would be equally anti-starmer as they were pro-brexit?!

Interesting site: I see Freddie Sayers - Executive Editor, is a journalist with The London Times, The Evening Standard, The Spectator, The Gruniad, YouGov Uk and the online European CTXT. Its fair to say none can be described as "challenging" to the establishment?
The Gruniad is firmly in the pocket of British Intelligence and Whitehall, sadly.

Ta for that (y)
 
Glover_elbow said:
i don't think its just Brexit, the Tories with Houchen are perceived to have done more for the area including Hartlepool in terms of new investment and jobs, recently than labour did when last in power. Theres a lot of working class disenfranchisement with labour.
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Yes! (y)
 
r00fie1 said:
Interesting article, but its worth pointing out that Keir Starmer supported a second referendum on leaving the European Union and is firmly in the European camp.
Its not accurate to say "...the left lost Hartlepool".
Had Keir been in the hot seat, Hartlepool would be equally anti-starmer as they were pro-brexit?!

Interesting site: I see Freddie Sayers - Executive Editor, is a journalist with The London Times, The Evening Standard, The Spectator, The Gruniad, YouGov Uk and the online European CTXT. Its fair to say none can be described as "challenging" to the establishment?
The Gruniad is firmly in the pocket of British Intelligence and Whitehall, sadly.

Ta for that (y)
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Freddy Sayers appears to have written one article for the Guardian 5 years ago, comparing the similarities and differences of support between Corbyn in the UK and Sanders in the USA
 
bear66 said:
Freddy Sayers appears to have written one article for the Guardian 5 years ago, comparing the similarities and differences of support between Corbyn in the UK and Sanders in the USA
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muckrack.com

Articles by Freddie Sayers’s Profile | UnHerd Journalist | Muck Rack

Articles by Freddie Sayers on Muck Rack. Find Freddie Sayers's email address, contact information, LinkedIn, Twitter, other social media and more.
muckrack.com muckrack.com

unherd.com

UnHerd | Ideas you won't hear elsewhere

Challenging the herd with new and bold thinking in philosophy, politics and culture.
unherd.com unherd.com
This is the blog to which Jack G was referring and its that which I found interesting. It so happens that Mr Sayer is the executive editor and its always important to understand who funds, who supports and who writes for an organisation. (y)
 
i would also add that ditching Corbyn for starmer has done absolutely nothing for labour, gains at the ballot box would be insignificant at best. Starmer started with a bit of gusto but his leadership has petered out, i am thoroughly disheartened with him now. Its a bit changing the Boro manager every season and expecting better results without looking at the bigger picture of whats failing at the club.
 
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