Wilders mackem presser ...

DCI_Gene_Hunt said:
That's not what I asked.

Ticket sales are what? £1 million a season? Compare that with Gibson's £12 million
Click to expand...

It will be significantly more than £1m a season.

We have something like 18,000 season ticket holders this year.
Even if every single season ticket holder was an early bird child (which it wouldn't be close to), that's £3m.
With the actual sales, it's probably going to be about £6-8m.

Our attendances this season have been 23k, 26k and 26k.
So that's another 5-8,000 walk ups and away fans, if that carries on consistently through the season, that's probably another £3m on top of season ticket sales.

Those are all rough estimates, but it's much more than £1m regardless.
 
Not brilliant but still stronger than last year (Tav loss apart) so with a whole season ahead of us we should be strong enough to challenge all the parachute payment clubs for the play-offs at least. Let's see if our self-styled uber manager and his coaching staff can actually arrange us into a winning unit now. They did it for most of last year to be fair so hopefully they can again. Who knows, if he'd managed to win a couple more of our early games rather than talking down the players he has in an attempt to leverage even more reinforcements we'd be higher up the league and might have been more attractive to the players we tried to buy this week.
 
TeaCider said:
It will be significantly more than £1m a season.

We have something like 18,000 season ticket holders this year.
Even if every single season ticket holder was an early bird child (which it wouldn't be close to), that's £3m.
With the actual sales, it's probably going to be about £6-8m.

Our attendances this season have been 23k, 26k and 26k.
So that's another 5-8,000 walk ups and away fans, if that carries on consistently through the season, that's probably another £3m on top of season ticket sales.

Those are all rough estimates, but it's much more than £1m regardless.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, I plucked a million out of the air. Still doesn't disguise the fact that Gibson was putting a million a month into the club just to keep it stable. Maybe he's putting less in this season I don't know but there's no way the club could budget properly if it tried to rely on walk ups.
The wage bill will be a lot more this season than last.
Walk ups will drop significantly when the price cap kicks in,the weather turns cold and if the football is ***** and we end up mid table slogging it out amongst the also rans.
 
indeedido said:
I genuinely can't think of many things Gibson has actually got right since appointing Steve McLaren.

1993-2006 he was a bold visionary who transformed a middling club with a massive inferiority complex hovering above the third tier into an established club in the richest league in the world. One of the people admire most in my life, especially as he was not a wealthy man at the time he was being boldest and most successful.

2007-2011 he got nothing right at all.
Hired Southgate, hired Strachan, wasted PP's.

2012-2013 he paid for the previous 5 years and current couple. Injected £56m in two lumps, converting debt to equity. Saved the club from the consequences of the losses incurred since 2007 and through the Financial Crisis. He had no choice other than to try and sell the club. Hired Mowbray who saved the club from the drop before coming perilously close to dropping himself. Retained far far too long.

2014-16 made his best decision since 2006, listened to a football pro Kenyon and hired Karanka. Unquestionably backed his manager and was thankfully rewarded with promotion and his opportunity.

2017-2020 a series of horrendous decisions around under-investment and not backing his manager, before sacking him, appointing a totally unqualified interim, inevitable relegation.
Then hired an idiot and allowed him to spend over £50m on what we didn't need, not signing what we did and then sacking Monk once he realised he had hired a crook and a useless one at that.
Then hired an even bigger crook who sold our silver and bought plastic and wasted the parachute payments going nowhere and leaving us with a massive wage bill on players with no resale value.
Then hired a buffoon to manage a squad so poor it was on it's way to the third tier. Woodgate had no chance.
Then hired Warnock who saved his bacon during Covid, before again sticking around past his sell by date for a job done.
The decks are finally cleared.

2021 hires Wilder, an ambitious manager and a shiny new swaggering DoF and there is talk again of promotion, great recruitment and that long last ambition from Gibson. The crowd get on board, season tickets are sold.
Then the 2022 window brings in tens of millions, commits little and leaves a manager hostage to a squad that is blatantly incomplete.

Mowbray and Warnock saved him but stayed too long. Karanka gave him the big opportunity but he blew it.
He obviously hasn't the ambition, vision or balls he once had judging by this summer.
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As I said I'm no Gibson apologist and accept he's got things wrong.

What would you have him do right now if you could force his hand?
 
I've said it before, but the words of a Man City fan in the early 90s seem relevant here (when they were siding through the leagues with an incompetent chairman). "When things go wrong in football... over 90 minutes it's the players' fault, over a season it's the manager's fault, over 15 years it's the chairman's fault". Never thought we'd get to the point where Super Steve was considered in these terms.
 
I know me and @indeedido disagree on how much of the money should have been spent and how it should have been spent but his posts nail it. I was absolutely fine with Hoppe and Forss at the time because I was convinced there was more to come but now it looks ridiculous. I thought by the end of the window Watmore would be 5th choice striker, turns out he's probably 2nd or 3rd, that is not good enough.

At a push I can forgive the strikeforce, we look like we are going to create enough chances to score the required amount of goals but having 4 midfielders for 3 slots is just incompetence, there is no other way to describe it. There is no point in having a manager like Wilder if you do not provide him the tools to do the job, you might as well have gone for Mowbray or someone like that. Why loan players like Giles, Steffen and Muniz who I assume won't be cheap if you're not even going to have a go? It's a waste of money, I don't mind the loans when you're trying to go up but otherwise you might as well just sign some cheaper players that you can actually sell on.

We have some of if not the most expensive tickets in the Championship, the club promised a big window and didn't deliver. I was not expecting us to spend £22m but spend £15m of it and if you do only spend £8m of it, why are we spending it on "development" players!? It is bizarre, there are plenty of 21-23 year olds available for £3m that can go into the 1st team. That is what I expected with Kieran Scott, it's what I meant when I said we should follow the Brentford model. Brentford signed Bryan Mbuemo for £6m when they sold Ollie Watkins, he was 20 year old, he went straight into the first team and was a star at Championship level.

I didn't think this would ever happen again when we got Kieran Scott, I thought we'd moved into the 21st century finally and we were doing things properly but apparently not, I guess that tells you Scott has nothing to do with it and it's someone above him that's failing the club.

I am one of the most positive Boro fans you will find so for me to be ***ed off with the club they have to have got something badly wrong.
 
One thing I found revealing recently is the comment from Wilder that he signed a 2.5 year contract. This makes me think that his remit will be to get us promoted by next season. This also ties in with his initial comment about taking 3/4 transfer windows to sort the team out. No doubt everyone will be delighted if we got up this season but it seems clear we are not going all in on getting top two this year. Only commiting resources when they believe its a good long term deal for the club.
 
Chappy112 said:
I know me and @indeedido disagree on how much of the money should have been spent and how it should have been spent but his posts nail it. I was absolutely fine with Hoppe and Forss at the time because I was convinced there was more to come but now it looks ridiculous. I thought by the end of the window Watmore would be 5th choice striker, turns out he's probably 2nd or 3rd, that is not good enough.

At a push I can forgive the strikeforce, we look like we are going to create enough chances to score the required amount of goals but having 4 midfielders for 3 slots is just incompetence, there is no other way to describe it. There is no point in having a manager like Wilder if you do not provide him the tools to do the job, you might as well have gone for Mowbray or someone like that. Why loan players like Giles, Steffen and Muniz who I assume won't be cheap if you're not even going to have a go? It's a waste of money, I don't mind the loans when you're trying to go up but otherwise you might as well just sign some cheaper players that you can actually sell on.

We have some of if not the most expensive tickets in the Championship, the club promised a big window and didn't deliver. I was not expecting us to spend £22m but spend £15m of it and if you do only spend £8m of it, why are we spending it on "development" players!? It is bizarre, there are plenty of 21-23 year olds available for £3m that can go into the 1st team. That is what I expected with Kieran Scott, it's what I meant when I said we should follow the Brentford model. Brentford signed Bryan Mbuemo for £6m when they sold Ollie Watkins, he was 20 year old, he went straight into the first team and was a star at Championship level.

I didn't think this would ever happen again when we got Kieran Scott, I thought we'd moved into the 21st century finally and we were doing things properly but apparently not, I guess that tells you Scott has nothing to do with it and it's someone above him that's failing the club.

I am one of the most positive Boro fans you will find so for me to be ***ed off with the club they have to have got something badly wrong.
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It’s telling that after a year in the job the players we managed to “get over the line” the Forss, Hoppe, Mujiz players, these were identified prior to KS & CW arrival. So WTF has gone on. I completely agree with the sentiment it’s people controlling or meddling with things still that shouldn’t be making decisions. KS & CW won’t be here next season - you can bet the 25m we’ve trousered on that.
 
indeedido said:
I genuinely can't think of many things Gibson has actually got right since appointing Steve McLaren.

1993-2006 he was a bold visionary who transformed a middling club with a massive inferiority complex hovering above the third tier into an established club in the richest league in the world. One of the people admire most in my life, especially as he was not a wealthy man at the time he was being boldest and most successful.

2007-2011 he got nothing right at all.
Hired Southgate, hired Strachan, wasted PP's.

2012-2013 he paid for the previous 5 years and current couple. Injected £56m in two lumps, converting debt to equity. Saved the club from the consequences of the losses incurred since 2007 and through the Financial Crisis. He had no choice other than to try and sell the club. Hired Mowbray who saved the club from the drop before coming perilously close to dropping himself. Retained far far too long.

2014-16 made his best decision since 2006, listened to a football pro Kenyon and hired Karanka. Unquestionably backed his manager and was thankfully rewarded with promotion and his opportunity.

2017-2020 a series of horrendous decisions around under-investment and not backing his manager, before sacking him, appointing a totally unqualified interim, inevitable relegation.
Then hired an idiot and allowed him to spend over £50m on what we didn't need, not signing what we did and then sacking Monk once he realised he had hired a crook and a useless one at that.
Then hired an even bigger crook who sold our silver and bought plastic and wasted the parachute payments going nowhere and leaving us with a massive wage bill on players with no resale value.
Then hired a buffoon to manage a squad so poor it was on it's way to the third tier. Woodgate had no chance.
Then hired Warnock who saved his bacon during Covid, before again sticking around past his sell by date for a job done.
The decks are finally cleared.

2021 hires Wilder, an ambitious manager and a shiny new swaggering DoF and there is talk again of promotion, great recruitment and that long last ambition from Gibson. The crowd get on board, season tickets are sold.
Then the 2022 window brings in tens of millions, commits little and leaves a manager hostage to a squad that is blatantly incomplete.

Mowbray and Warnock saved him but stayed too long. Karanka gave him the big opportunity but he blew it.
He obviously hasn't the ambition, vision or balls he once had judging by this summer.
Click to expand...
The players screwed Karanka and blew it. Not Gibson.
Players at that time needed reminding who was in charge and they spat their dummies out and went crying.

Karanka should NEVER have been sacked. We'd have been promoted the season after relegation and would more than likely now be a comfortable mid table premier league side, working on paying off the debt to Gibson's company and working on buying and selling players for profit aiming for that elusive European adventure again.
 
indeedido said:
He doesn't put it in - he guarantees with cross Group loans the losses his decisions result in. GON (he) last injected £8m in 2016. It is a decade since he put the significant sum of £50m in to covert debt to equity.
The club formally owe Gibson O' Neill well over £130m. Gibson hasn't given the money to Boro, the Group he part owns has lent it.

The reality is that every season in the Championship means the club lose money. Gibson O' Neill either offset that loss with an additional loan, or the Club folds.
I fully understand the reality.
He has provided those guarantees to fund losses, fundamentally made through:
1. High amortisation charges as bad signings since 2017 were written down over contracts through which they couldn't be/weren't sold.
The Club have bought spectacularly badly since 2016.
2. High wage bill to pay those awful signings across their long contracts.
Double whammy of bad transfer business.
3. Reduced revenue through Covid, only partially offset by FL funding and insurance.
4. Low player sale profit as players could not be sold above their book value and no Academy reared players had major value.
5. Parachute Payments ended 2019.
6. Continuing Cat 1 Academy spend which is all FFP allowable, but does cost real money to fund.

He had little choice but to do this, as he IS the club from a financial perspective.
If GON don't extend further loans every year, the Club is declared bust and ceases trading. The Club has seriously negative net shareholder value over £80m. If the Club goes, Gibson loses everything he has ever put into the Club and can't get all his loans out.
His only real way out of this cycle of extended loans and debt is to step change revenue and get the club promoted. It is possible that if he did this he could make the debt appear much more reasonable to a prospective investor. So he could stop the need to fund and eventually possibly even recover money.
But he needs the PL for that.

His alternative would be to minimise his costs, slash the wage bill, be a huge net seller of players and then hope his squad can survive in the lower reaches of the Championship. This was his approach in 2011-2015.
Then came Karanka, some investment, promotion and the revenues he unfortunately went on to waste.

So after years of fire fighting his mistakes of 2016-2020, there was a chink of light.
The decks were being cleared, the expensive rubbish written off and paid off.
Amortisation all but eliminated, Wage bill slashed, Revenue post Covid and amid fan optimism, well up.
Then the windfall; a £12.5m rising to £20m boost to this year's revenue, through profit on the sale of Djed Spence who has no book value. A massive FFP boost for the next 3 years and a huge P&L boost this year.
Then the decision: to sell one of the Academy products Tavernier. Another £10m rising to £12.5m boost to this year's revenue, through profit on another player with no book value.

So costs much more under control, revenues up and a minimum bookable £22.5m profit from player sales THIS season.

I honestly thought - more fool me - that he had got us in a position to build on an average squad and go for promotion.
There were 5 loan places to fill if required. There was this supposed rich array of free transfers we could step in for.
We still had other players that had no book value but good market value to trade, or build on (Jones, Fry, Dijksteel, McNair)
We have a very strong FFP from which to progress.
We had a £22.5m windfall.
We could either invest it, or save it.

So, we have moved out 4 loans from last season end (Siliki, Sporar, Connolly, Balogun).
We've let 3 players go at end of short contracts (Taylor, Peltier and Bamba).
We have released 5 more contracted senior players ( Ameobi, Olusanya, Stejanovic, Wood and Ikpeazu)
And sold 2 for big money (Spence and Tavernier)
We've then loaned out 3 more who will never come back as contracts are up next summer (Lumley, Hall and Coulson)
We've also loaned out 4 more who will return (Payero ?, Coburn, Hemmings and Brynn)
That is a 21 player swing.

There was a big need to recruit and lots of scope to do it.
We have signed 3 on frees (Lenihan, Roberts and Smith). Fine if they were simply cover.
We have signed 4 on loan (Steffen, Giles, Mowatt and Muniz). Steffen and Mowatt are at best meh.
We have bought 3 for £7.75m (Clarke, Forss and Hoppe) Clarke appears decent, but it is crystal clear Wilder doesn't see the other two as anything but cover/development.

Amortisation of those 3 will be £1.75m per season across the length of their contracts, or 7% of the profit from player sales this season.

It is a fundamentally underwhelming window. To disagree is to swallow the Gibson propaganda machine.
We have a small 22 man squad, this from the Club's own website.
3 Keepers (Roberts, Daniels and Steffen)
5 CB's (Lenihan,Clarke,Fry, Dijksteel and McNair)
4 WB/LB (Giles, Jones, Bola, Smith)
1 DM (Howson)
4 AM (Crooks, McGree, Mowatt, Boyd Munce)
5 ST (Muniz, Watmore, Akpom, Forss and Hoppe)
Within that the manager clearly doesn't fancy some of those who have been signed and we are expected to believe Akpom is Lazarus.

If not for the signing of the brilliant Giles and exciting Muniz, it would be a horrendous window.

Middlesbrough will make a huge trading profit this season. Gibson is entitled to save it, or repay loans to Gibson O'Neill with it. But one things is clear he has shown no intention to invest it, and therefore has absolutely no chance of promotion and thus ending the need for GON to shore up the inevitable future losses.
He screwed up his big opportunity in 2016. I am stunned he has done the same with his next in 2022.
He deserves what he gets. I say that for the jaw droppingly bad decisions he repeatedly makes.
Sadly we will remain stuck with each other as a result. We have no alternative.
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I think that’s a fair assessment - I have to say i find some of the clubs, or Gibson’s, decisions baffling. Didn’t really back Karanka when we got promoted but six months later gives Monk more money than any manager in our history? And now when we finally get a high grade manager at the helm once again we send him into the season with a squad that’s clearly under strength in key areas. I just don’t know why the club haven’t got the required numbers in when we are in the position to do so.
I can’t see Wilder sticking around if he’s having to work with what is effectively one hand tied behind his back.
 
indeedido said:
I genuinely can't think of many things Gibson has actually got right since appointing Steve McLaren.

1993-2006 he was a bold visionary who transformed a middling club with a massive inferiority complex hovering above the third tier into an established club in the richest league in the world. One of the people admire most in my life, especially as he was not a wealthy man at the time he was being boldest and most successful.

2007-2011 he got nothing right at all.
Hired Southgate, hired Strachan, wasted PP's.

2012-2013 he paid for the previous 5 years and current couple. Injected £56m in two lumps, converting debt to equity. Saved the club from the consequences of the losses incurred since 2007 and through the Financial Crisis. He had no choice other than to try and sell the club. Hired Mowbray who saved the club from the drop before coming perilously close to dropping himself. Retained far far too long.

2014-16 made his best decision since 2006, listened to a football pro Kenyon and hired Karanka. Unquestionably backed his manager and was thankfully rewarded with promotion and his opportunity.

2017-2020 a series of horrendous decisions around under-investment and not backing his manager, before sacking him, appointing a totally unqualified interim, inevitable relegation.
Then hired an idiot and allowed him to spend over £50m on what we didn't need, not signing what we did and then sacking Monk once he realised he had hired a crook and a useless one at that.
Then hired an even bigger crook who sold our silver and bought plastic and wasted the parachute payments going nowhere and leaving us with a massive wage bill on players with no resale value.
Then hired a buffoon to manage a squad so poor it was on it's way to the third tier. Woodgate had no chance.
Then hired Warnock who saved his bacon during Covid, before again sticking around past his sell by date for a job done.
The decks are finally cleared.

2021 hires Wilder, an ambitious manager and a shiny new swaggering DoF and there is talk again of promotion, great recruitment and that long last ambition from Gibson. The crowd get on board, season tickets are sold.
Then the 2022 window brings in tens of millions, commits little and leaves a manager hostage to a squad that is blatantly incomplete.

Mowbray and Warnock saved him but stayed too long. Karanka gave him the big opportunity but he blew it.
He obviously hasn't the ambition, vision or balls he once had judging by this summer.
Click to expand...

This post deserves its own thread. Nail on the head.
 
indeedido said:
He doesn't put it in - he guarantees with cross Group loans the losses his decisions result in. GON (he) last injected £8m in 2016. It is a decade since he put the significant sum of £50m in to covert debt to equity.
The club formally owe Gibson O' Neill well over £130m. Gibson hasn't given the money to Boro, the Group he part owns has lent it.

The reality is that every season in the Championship means the club lose money. Gibson O' Neill either offset that loss with an additional loan, or the Club folds.
I fully understand the reality.
He has provided those guarantees to fund losses, fundamentally made through:
1. High amortisation charges as bad signings since 2017 were written down over contracts through which they couldn't be/weren't sold.
The Club have bought spectacularly badly since 2016.
2. High wage bill to pay those awful signings across their long contracts.
Double whammy of bad transfer business.
3. Reduced revenue through Covid, only partially offset by FL funding and insurance.
4. Low player sale profit as players could not be sold above their book value and no Academy reared players had major value.
5. Parachute Payments ended 2019.
6. Continuing Cat 1 Academy spend which is all FFP allowable, but does cost real money to fund.

He had little choice but to do this, as he IS the club from a financial perspective.
If GON don't extend further loans every year, the Club is declared bust and ceases trading. The Club has seriously negative net shareholder value over £80m. If the Club goes, Gibson loses everything he has ever put into the Club and can't get all his loans out.
His only real way out of this cycle of extended loans and debt is to step change revenue and get the club promoted. It is possible that if he did this he could make the debt appear much more reasonable to a prospective investor. So he could stop the need to fund and eventually possibly even recover money.
But he needs the PL for that.

His alternative would be to minimise his costs, slash the wage bill, be a huge net seller of players and then hope his squad can survive in the lower reaches of the Championship. This was his approach in 2011-2015.
Then came Karanka, some investment, promotion and the revenues he unfortunately went on to waste.

So after years of fire fighting his mistakes of 2016-2020, there was a chink of light.
The decks were being cleared, the expensive rubbish written off and paid off.
Amortisation all but eliminated, Wage bill slashed, Revenue post Covid and amid fan optimism, well up.
Then the windfall; a £12.5m rising to £20m boost to this year's revenue, through profit on the sale of Djed Spence who has no book value. A massive FFP boost for the next 3 years and a huge P&L boost this year.
Then the decision: to sell one of the Academy products Tavernier. Another £10m rising to £12.5m boost to this year's revenue, through profit on another player with no book value.

So costs much more under control, revenues up and a minimum bookable £22.5m profit from player sales THIS season.

I honestly thought - more fool me - that he had got us in a position to build on an average squad and go for promotion.
There were 5 loan places to fill if required. There was this supposed rich array of free transfers we could step in for.
We still had other players that had no book value but good market value to trade, or build on (Jones, Fry, Dijksteel, McNair)
We have a very strong FFP from which to progress.
We had a £22.5m windfall.
We could either invest it, or save it.

So, we have moved out 4 loans from last season end (Siliki, Sporar, Connolly, Balogun).
We've let 3 players go at end of short contracts (Taylor, Peltier and Bamba).
We have released 5 more contracted senior players ( Ameobi, Olusanya, Stejanovic, Wood and Ikpeazu)
And sold 2 for big money (Spence and Tavernier)
We've then loaned out 3 more who will never come back as contracts are up next summer (Lumley, Hall and Coulson)
We've also loaned out 4 more who will return (Payero ?, Coburn, Hemmings and Brynn)
That is a 21 player swing.

There was a big need to recruit and lots of scope to do it.
We have signed 3 on frees (Lenihan, Roberts and Smith). Fine if they were simply cover.
We have signed 4 on loan (Steffen, Giles, Mowatt and Muniz). Steffen and Mowatt are at best meh.
We have bought 3 for £7.75m (Clarke, Forss and Hoppe) Clarke appears decent, but it is crystal clear Wilder doesn't see the other two as anything but cover/development.

Amortisation of those 3 will be £1.75m per season across the length of their contracts, or 7% of the profit from player sales this season.

It is a fundamentally underwhelming window. To disagree is to swallow the Gibson propaganda machine.
We have a small 22 man squad, this from the Club's own website.
3 Keepers (Roberts, Daniels and Steffen)
5 CB's (Lenihan,Clarke,Fry, Dijksteel and McNair)
4 WB/LB (Giles, Jones, Bola, Smith)
1 DM (Howson)
4 AM (Crooks, McGree, Mowatt, Boyd Munce)
5 ST (Muniz, Watmore, Akpom, Forss and Hoppe)
Within that the manager clearly doesn't fancy some of those who have been signed and we are expected to believe Akpom is Lazarus.

If not for the signing of the brilliant Giles and exciting Muniz, it would be a horrendous window.

Middlesbrough will make a huge trading profit this season. Gibson is entitled to save it, or repay loans to Gibson O'Neill with it. But one things is clear he has shown no intention to invest it, and therefore has absolutely no chance of promotion and thus ending the need for GON to shore up the inevitable future losses.
He screwed up his big opportunity in 2016. I am stunned he has done the same with his next in 2022.
He deserves what he gets. I say that for the jaw droppingly bad decisions he repeatedly makes.
Sadly we will remain stuck with each other as a result. We have no alternative.
Click to expand...
Brilliant detailed analysis piece indeedido. This is where the Achilles heal of Gibbo comes to the fore. It is lost on his admirers and defenders that the saviour of the club has made us virtually unsellable with assets of far less value in comparison to the losses made. This alone should be of concern of every Boro fan.
 
So some facts about what Gibson O'Neill have/haven't injected in equity and loaned to MFC.
None of the following is opinion, it is fact and drawn directly from MFC published accounts.

Middlesbrough's ride from 1993-1999 was largely built on debt, mostly external debt at that. GON had loaned the club £6m
There was £1m of share capital on the Balance Sheet. Gibson had bought that at cost from ICI, Ex Mill and S&N.
By 1999 he had not put money in at that stage, merely loaned the club £6m across GON. The club had a nett book value of -£8m

By 2006, GON had lent the club a further ££60m, to £66m in total, but still no Equity injection. The Club had a book value of -£44m at this point, £36m worse than in 1999, but did have a 35k seater stadium completed and a leading Training Ground.
The 7 years had seen success on the pitch; it was however losing a lot of money every season and the debt burden was only going one way. It was still saleable as an established PL club that had had 2 successive European seasons. Its debt was at that point manageable.

Then came a very rocky 6 year period on and off the pitch

In 2012, GON converted £50m of debt into Equity. This was Gibson genuinely putting money in to save the club, given ongoing losses, an inability to sustain external finance or cover the cost of it. At this point the club also still owed £62m to GON in net undertakings (loans), £4m less than in 2006. Our club would be dead but for this injection.
At this point Gibson had put £50m in and loaned an additional £62m.
The club was worth -£33m at this point, so £11m less underwater in the 6 years since 2006 because of Gibson's equity injection.
Now MFC was a Championship club that had wasted its Parachute Payments and was a highly unattractive buy.

In 2014 GON converted another £5m of debt to equity.

By 2017, the Club owed GON £80m in net undertakings (loans), so £18m more than in 2012.
In addition Gibson had converted a further £8m of debt to equity in 2017. He had by now injected £63m.
The Club was worth -£57m at this point, a further £24m underwater in 5 years; in serious financial difficulties, but still with a couple of years of PP's.

The latest books show that in the 4 years to 2021, there has been no further injection of equity and Undertakings (loans from GON) sit at £121m, £41m higher than in 2017. Debts had spiralled despite the Parachute Payments to 2019.
The Club was then worth -£117m and an absolute financial basket case, £60m further underwater since 2017.

We lose lots of money every season outside the PL and have spent 13 seasons out of 14 outside the top flight and received 5 additional seasons of Parachute Payments.

Overall GON (67% owned by Gibson) has injected £63m into the Club and as things stand, the Club currently owe GON a further £121m.
It will be higher than that, as I am sure the club will have lost money again in year to July 2022 i.e. last season (though not nearly as much) I'd be stunned if Gibson has converted any more debt to equity. Undertakings/loans must therefore be even higher to cover the 2021-22 season loss.

So, £63m across 29 years is £2.17m per season. That is what his Company have actually injected.
He has lent a further £121m which is now owed, but not repayable within 12 months.
His leadership has meant the club is now worth -£117m and is an absolute financial basket case only an idiot would take over without him writing off the money owed.

It is a different world versus 2006, that is crystal clear. He is a financial Flyweight fighting much heavier weights
IMHO It remains possible to sustain a PL club without continual owner funding, but that is not so in the Championship; unless you opt for a low wage/sell any players with value/stay above the relegation trapdoor to League 1 approach.
Gibson had the chance - had worked hard to forge it - to get to the PL and stop the funding dependency. He has chosen not to take it this summer.

The loans will return to their parent, other contracts will run out and the Club will have another squad overhaul, only this time the windfall from Spence and Tav will have been absorbed.
He is placing enormous faith in Kieran Scott it seems. I'm totally unsure why.
Wilder should have been much better backed this summer. It won't just be him who loses credibility if there is an early parting of the ways.
 
DCI_Gene_Hunt said:
As I said I'm no Gibson apologist and accept he's got things wrong.

What would you have him do right now if you could force his hand?
Click to expand...
I owe you a response to a direct question Gene.
We can't sign any players now until January. If we are remotely in touch with the play offs then he needs to sign the players that should have been signed this summer and pray that Wilder is still here and can galvanise the squad to qualify then win the play offs.
This will cost him more than it would this summer as nobody sells quality in Jan window and he only has one loan spot left.

If we are not in with a Play off shot, then he should not spend further in January and be deciding whether he wants to keep Wilder or not.
He should be reflecting on this summer and Kieran Scott's input since joining the club.
There will be a profit made this season now.
He should try and recall what made him so admirable back in the day.

In all honesty its like saying he's just **** himself at work, so what should he do next.
I am annoyed with myself for giving him much more credit as being about to act boldly through this summer. I fell for it, again.
I love my Club and always will. Steve Gibson not so much.
 
indeedido said:
I owe you a response to a direct question Gene.
We can't sign any players now until January. If we are remotely in touch with the play offs then he needs to sign the players that should have been signed this summer and pray that Wilder is still here and can galvanise the squad to qualify then win the play offs.
This will cost him more than it would this summer as nobody sells quality in Jan window and he only has one loan spot left.

If we are not in with a Play off shot, then he should not spend further in January and be deciding whether he wants to keep Wilder or not.
He should be reflecting on this summer and Kieran Scott's input since joining the club.
There will be a profit made this season now.
He should try and recall what made him so admirable back in the day.

In all honesty its like saying he's just **** himself at work, so what should he do next.
I am annoyed with myself for giving him much more credit as being about to act boldly through this summer. I fell for it, again.
I love my Club and always will. Steve Gibson not so much.
Click to expand...
Fair response & I don't disagree too much. I just think Gibson deserves a bit more credit for what he's done overall not just criticism for the last 10 years or so where its all gone a bit t*ts up.

I love my club as well, ever since my first game in 1969 and always will but I'd hate to see it owned by some dodgy trigger happy Italian or Americans in it for the money.

UTFB
 
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