Wilder not being backed is a myth.

Selling Tav and replacing him with Mowatt was the huge mistake. We don't know whether Mowatt was a Wilder signing or a club signing but either way, we are now lacking serious energy in the midfield because of our failure to replace Tav adequately.

We also missed out on signing a defensive midfielder - which was very disappointing.

I don't feel we had a great summer transfer window but it wasn't disasterous either, and Wilder's decision not to give Forss or Hoppe a chance in the first-team was baffling.
 
No player has said a positive word about wilder in the last six months. It's not so much what you say as what you don't. There was clear friction with some of the senior players
Who did he have friction with? Odd that no one said anything negative, we know from past managers players usually aren't shy.
 
An interesting question should be over what period and games does anyone measure performance objectively.

Alex Ferguson was crap at Man United for over 3 years, but kept his job.

Brian Clough had 44 days @ Leeds and was sacked then got Forest promoted after 2 years in charge, won Div 1 (Premier now), following year won European Cup (Champions League and again the following year. OK Taylor helped him @ Forest.

Secondly how much emphasis should be placed on the the budget given?

Fergie was allowed to break the UK transfer record when he was struggling at MU to purchase Pally.

Cloughie did not spend big until he bought Peter Shilton in 1977 (after promotion) close to a record fee at the time and of course broke the record in 1979 with the first £1m transfer.

To not give someone 12 month and very much limit their budget seems harsh to me.
 
An interesting question should be over what period and games does anyone measure performance objectively.

Alex Ferguson was crap at Man United for over 3 years, but kept his job.

Brian Clough had 44 days @ Leeds and was sacked then got Forest promoted after 2 years in charge, won Div 1 (Premier now), following year won European Cup (Champions League and again the following year. OK Taylor helped him @ Forest.

Secondly how much emphasis should be placed on the the budget given?

Fergie was allowed to break the UK transfer record when he was struggling at MU to purchase Pally.

Cloughie did not spend big until he bought Peter Shilton in 1977 (after promotion) close to a record fee at the time and of course broke the record in 1979 with the first £1m transfer.

To not give someone 12 month and very much limit their budget seems harsh to me.
how can you say it was harsh when this season his whole demeaner and words were so negative almost to the point it sounded like he wanted sacking.. Talk about the players nosediving in form after burnley, but there is also a great argument to suggest wilders positivity and enthusiasm finished there, there after he turned into a right miserable negative sod.
 
I've seen a lot of people saying how Wilder wasn't backed properly and if I'm honest it's absolutely ludicrous.
We signed 14 players in his tenure so let's assess shall we?

Neil Taylor - Wilders signing
Aaron Conolly - Wilders signing (Useless)
Flo Balogun - Club signing (mysteriously benched upon hitting form)
Riley Mcgree - Wilders permanent signing beating out Celtic
Zack Steffen - Wilders signing come in after being city's number 2 great pedigree- big wages
Liam Robers - Club signing - Smart Free Transfer
Ryan Giles - Club and Wilder - Provably the best left back in the championship
Darragh Leinhan - Wilder signing- Championship Rivals captain.
Matt Clarke - Wilder signing - £2.5 million
Alex Mowatt - Wilder signing
Massimo Luongo - Wilder signing
Rodrigo Muniz - Club signing
Mathew Hoppe - Club signing - Consigned to u21's
Marcus Forss - Never gets off the bench .

You cannot say he wasn't backed, rumours were circulating that Gibbo put a stop to Dwight Gayle? Can you blame him? Monster wages, over 30 and absolutely no sell on value?

When you have a DOF l, you expect you're gonna be handed players who fit where the club want to go, players who could potentially get you big sell on money. Wilder was given 9 of his own playersand in 2 windows and some exciting young players.

The trust was lost after Burnley, why would Gibbo give a man he doesn't trust a war chest? He trusted Karanka he got who he wanted. After Monk I can't blame him for this approach.

I suspect the next man in will get the war chest in January, I suspect he'll also be a head coach not a manager.
UTB
How do you know they were Wilders signings?

Do you really think he had time to be scouting and picking players before the Jan window? He had only been here since Nov, and had to learn the squad and what we needed, plus looking after about 8 games.

Then most of those who are any good area loans, we've spent more money on people he didn't want.

Typically when you have two other guys and scouting looking after transfers Wilder would say "I want a left footed, LCB, like that lad from Hull", and then we would reply "we don't want to pay for him, here's Clarke, and by the way, we've sold tav and you won't be spending a penny of that or the spence money".

Then the other conversation would have been "Can you get me two decent strikers in, the ones you've got here are muck. That Gyokeres lad looks alright, and maybe Riis as a backup", and the reply went "here's Forss and Hoppe, who you don't want, and we've spent £7m on them, so don't have any money for some good ones, who you do want. We've got Muniz in, who you might like, but he's only on loan."

There is absolutely no way in hell that Wilder imagined having to accept Mowatt and Luongo, especially after the sale of Tav.
 
We've spent about 10.5 in his 11 months in charge, but sold 30m+ Very strong case to argue that we never replaced Tav.
That's not even a case to argue, they would be convicted without trial, ludicrous decision without having an actual decent replacement (in advance).
 
If the plan isn’t working.. you change it.

We’re not talking about a random collection of players here are we. The whole point of a manager is to manage! £10m players can play in any system and get you to the playoffs if not automatic promotion.
plans and strategies are different. The strategy is a fixed playing style to prevent having players that can't play to their optimum in a given style and system.

Now maybe an indiviudal plan to deliver that isn't working because the players have fallen out with the manager, or the nuances of his tactics aren't working, or he's not picking players purely because he didn't sign them. Whatever, but the strategy remains.
 
I would suggest we should appoint a head coach, not a manager. They then give a wish list, which the club delivers within its budget (which is balls all to do with the coach)

In Wilders case (guessing of course):

A keeper with good distribution and a solid back up (Steffan, Roberts)
A leader at the back (Lenihan)
A left footed CB (Clarke)
A left wing back (Giles)
Box to box MF (not delivered)
A finisher (Forss)
An aggressive front man up top (Muniz)

I'm sorry, but if Wilder was half as good as he thinks he is, then he had the tools at his disposal to be a little higher than 3rd bottom.

Add his downbeat demeanour over the past few months to the mix, he was deservedly sacked in my opinion.
 
I would suggest we should appoint a head coach, not a manager. They then give a wish list, which the club delivers within its budget (which is balls all to do with the coach)

In Wilders case (guessing of course):

A keeper with good distribution and a solid back up (Steffan, Roberts)
A leader at the back (Lenihan)
A left footed CB (Clarke)
A left wing back (Giles)
Box to box MF (not delivered)
A finisher (Forss)
An aggressive front man up top (Muniz)

I'm sorry, but if Wilder was half as good as he thinks he is, then he had the tools at his disposal to be a little higher than 3rd bottom.

Add his downbeat demeanour over the past few months to the mix, he was deservedly sacked in my opinion.
i don't think there's any doubt we should've been higher than 3rd bottom. But Forss was clearly not the type of striker Wilder was after, and i'd suggest that Clarke was some way down the list. The club selling Tav and not replacing him was a massive loss for us. The system you describe is exactly how it was supposed to work, but if you don't get the right type of players, and/or the right quality then the whole thing doesn't work.
 
I think we've got to be consistent here.

Is making a profit in the transfer market the same as not being backed?

I'd say no; we've still spent far.more than other championship clubs without parachute payments.

Some will disgaree with that position, fair enough, but they'd also have to argue Tony Pullis wasn't backed in the transfer market.
 
An interesting question should be over what period and games does anyone measure performance objectively.

Alex Ferguson was crap at Man United for over 3 years, but kept his job.

Brian Clough had 44 days @ Leeds and was sacked then got Forest promoted after 2 years in charge, won Div 1 (Premier now), following year won European Cup (Champions League and again the following year. OK Taylor helped him @ Forest.

Secondly how much emphasis should be placed on the the budget given?

Fergie was allowed to break the UK transfer record when he was struggling at MU to purchase Pally.

Cloughie did not spend big until he bought Peter Shilton in 1977 (after promotion) close to a record fee at the time and of course broke the record in 1979 with the first £1m transfer.

To not give someone 12 month and very much limit their budget seems harsh to me.
Managers manage.. and he didn’t.

Comparing Wilder to Fergie and Cloughie is laughable!
 
I think we've got to be consistent here.

Is making a profit in the transfer market the same as not being backed?

I'd say no; we've still spent far.more than other championship clubs without parachute payments.

Some will disgaree with that position, fair enough, but they'd also have to argue Tony Pullis wasn't backed in the transfer market.
In any case pulis spent £20m on 3 poor players he wanted and a load more on very expensive loans.
He also got to say who was sold and who stayed. There is no comparison in backing.
 
In any case pulis spent £20m on 3 poor players he wanted and a load more on very expensive loans.
He also got to say who was sold and who stayed. There is no comparison in backing.
i'd agree, £7m on Saville, £7m on Flint, £5m on McNair. This summer has been mainly about frees and loans apart from two strikers that it's clear were not what the manager was after.
Unfortunately whichever model we use (DOF buying players to fit managers needs or a manager taking a lead role in recruitment) we always seem to get in mainly wrong. It's the biggest issue holding the club back.
 
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