Why excited by Carrick and not Cattermole?

Not really sure it's a big name, or a big character, but probably i'd say he brings an attacking instinct and a knowledge and perhaps a coaching staff that will change the way we play, which could be a means to an end of our defensive frailties but who knows until we see the changes. As for his coaching time, the most important aspect here I feel is not his time, but his knowledge and leadership. Whelan as most will now is a no frills defensive coach and Meulensteen [if he comes] wears many hats, from club structure, recruitment and player development. I honestly don't believe Carrick can be a success without Meulensteen as he's so knowledgable not just about the total football concept but also putting in a plan for the future.
 
i remember when the illustrious bobby charlton went to Preston North End.

we got Jack from dirty leeds.

being a silky footballer at a big club, does not a great manager make.


Stein, Paisley, Nicholson, Shankly, Busby, Revie, Jose, Ferguson, Klopp, Howe, Potter - competent professionals, but non of em great shakes as footballers - the game is littered with 'em.
Busby and Revie?
 
Genuine question.

Is it the back room staff the Carrick will bring? They are both unproven as head coach / manager. Not looking to pick a fight but why does one excite you?

Glads it’s all over anyway, UTB

Now John O’Shea. Excited
 
I not only think it's the coaching experience, the experience of playing at a high level consistently but the fact that he might have fresh ideas, outside eyes. Cattermole might have just carried on the same thing that isn't working (he also might not have) but I think Carrick will have a fresh perspective on things.
 
I've never been excited by a managerial/coaching appointment. I haven't a clue how they're going to turn out. We've had those with little experience doing as well if not better than most.

You can slide a beer mat between Carrick and Cattermole as far as managerial experience goes. Carrick is used to a different set up to what we have here, it's a different world, yet we've had two successful managers from the Old Trafford system. The reason being that we had money to spend, we spent big for both and it put us into a lot of debt, from which we took a long time to recover, if we have ever fully recovered.

I've no idea if Carrick will make a better manager than Cattermole, I'd imagine the one that gets hold of the bigger purse will be the most successful. Who knows?
 
I've never been excited by a managerial/coaching appointment. I haven't a clue how they're going to turn out. We've had those with little experience doing as well if not better than most.

You can slide a beer mat between Carrick and Cattermole as far as managerial experience goes. Carrick is used to a different set up to what we have here, it's a different world, yet we've had two successful managers from the Old Trafford system. The reason being that we had money to spend, we spent big for both and it put us into a lot of debt, from which we took a long time to recover, if we have ever fully recovered.

I've no idea if Carrick will make a better manager than Cattermole, I'd imagine the one that gets hold of the bigger purse will be the most successful. Who knows?
I think having capable, experienced coaches around a relatively inexperienced manager is key.

We have to get this right.

I do wonder if this was the sticking point in previous discussions with Carrick.

I am far more interested in the club getting in coaches with the above credentials than hanging onto the current incumbents for the wrong reasons.
 
I don't believe many are really happy about Carrick or there wouldn't be all this talk about who his assistants will be. We've never cared about this in the past - it just shows how nervous fans are being his first managers appointment.

2 years as Oli's understudy doesn't fill me with confidence - that was car crash football at its best!
 
For me, when you are looking to appoint an untried new manager its an inherent risk. I'm not adverse to that at all, judging by the failures of many more experienced managers that we've had in recent times.
As others have pointed out with glaring parity, our fledgling appointments have generally been more successful.

In terms of the debate between Carrick and Clatter-em-all, I suppose a good marker for the qualities you are looking for are with their pedigree. I'd much rather take a risk with Carrick for obvious reasons. But conversely, there is nothing to suggest cattermole won't make a decent fist of it either.
To quote our chairman, it's a more 'calculated' risk.


#UTB
 
One of the main reasons for me are the connections he will have. Clearly we need a squad overhaul and Carrick will have connections at Man U, West Ham and Spurs, and is a more attractive name to attract players in January, compared to Cattermole
 
I don't believe many are really happy about Carrick or there wouldn't be all this talk about who his assistants will be. We've never cared about this in the past - it just shows how nervous fans are being his first managers appointment.

2 years as Oli's understudy doesn't fill me with confidence - that was car crash football at its best!
We've had a number of previously successful and experienced managers, most approved of by the majority, who haven't brought the short term success demanded by the fans and the chairman.

Past experience means nothing at a club like Boro.
 
Personally I'd have neither but if forced to pick, I'd go Carrick.

As above, he's coached at a higher level (but that's about it for me).

Not sure the relevance of (either) playing career. A stellar career on the pitch is clearly no barometer for success off it. Indeed, a number of progressive modern managers at the height of the game have very little professional playing experience. The best manager in the world didn't play a first team match is his life.

A quick look at Carrick's equals (Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard) shows they have, at best, performed in line with expectations and by and large have underperformed.

While it's true that Carrick has worked alongside some very good coaches, I'd argue he's only worked for one world class manager (and it's not Ole!)
 
Busby and Revie?
I don't remember Matt as a player too well but Revie was top notch, silky smooth and smart as was Jock Stein albeit in a different position smart applied to Jock although Silky smooth might be an exaggeration and I seem to recollect that Bill Nicholson was none too shabby
 
He was a fantastic player but that doesn’t translate to managerial abilities. Didn’t Ryan Giggs coach Utd for a few games?
He managed Utd for 4 games: W2 D1 L1
Also managed Wales and for 25 games: W12 D5 L8, which included qualifying for Euro 2020.

Not sure what point that proves.
 
For me, when you are looking to appoint an untried new manager its an inherent risk.

I don't think it makes a difference if they're untried or not: it's always a risk.
Warnock is as successful as they come at this level. He may have kept us up, but we weren't heading towards promotion. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance, be it managers or strikers with good numbers.

I think the OP asks a fair question: I don't think Carrick's limited coaching makes the difference between an exciting appointment and a disaster.
As for achievement and quality as a player, I think we all know great player does not = great manager, or even have any bearing on the style of play a manager will prefer.

I do think familiarity can breed contempt to some degree. Locals with previous club attachment are disavantaged by the suggestion that it's jobs for the boys, regardless of whether they're the best candidate or not (not claiming Cattermole is).

As for freshness, it's not worth chasing. Doesn't matter how fresh a manager is: he will be stale after 6 matches if results aren't good.
 
I think what is a little bit frustrating is that every club/fan wants an experienced manager but for a manager to become an experienced manager they also need their first job, their first chance to become a manager. Look at arteta now, that's his first job and no-one can complain about the job he's doing. It's a risk but I for one am glad and proud that we give inexperienced managers a chance from time to time.
 
Any experienced manager is going to have a few failures under his belt; if not, there's no chance of him joining a struggling championship club.

Inevitably, those failures will be used to beat the appointment.

I'm fairly ambivalent now on the experienced/novice manger debate. I've seen them both succeed and fail here, so maybe it's not the defining characteristic we should be worrying about. I'd be judging potential candidates as individuals rather that worrying about what pigeonhole they fit into.
 
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The bottom line is, if everything fits, if the appointment feels right then he'll be a success, regardless of his achievements in the game
 
I think what is a little bit frustrating is that every club/fan wants an experienced manager but for a manager to become an experienced manager they also need their first job, their first chance to become a manager. Look at arteta now, that's his first job and no-one can complain about the job he's doing. It's a risk but I for one am glad and proud that we give inexperienced managers a chance from time to time.
And Arsenal had the patience to stand by him while he found his feet despite plenty of their fans demanding he was sacked.
 
He managed Utd for 4 games: W2 D1 L1
Also managed Wales and for 25 games: W12 D5 L8, which included qualifying for Euro 2020.

Not sure what point that proves.
Point I think I was making is that winning a few games with Man Utd at the end of the season doesn’t mean much. Different to taking over a dodgy boro side
 
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