When did Boris become the messiah

[American_Mary]

not making any mistakes only by virtue of not being in power to make them is hardly a ringing endorsement nor is it evidence that any govt other than this one would have handled it a) any better and/or b) any differently

should we run a parallel pandemic and have a Labour govt in power as well, we'll score them each at the end of the day to see's who is 'winning'

No but if they made the same mistakes then they would and should be accountable for them, we can only go on what we have and Labour or Lib Dem’s or Brexit Party may well have done worse rather than better but we don’t know, all we can go on is the data available to us and how it compares to other countries in similar situations, I think a good example is allowing Madrid fans into Liverpool when Madrid was in lockdown was something that should not have been allowed, you can say Liverpool, UEFA or the FA should have taken the decision but ultimately it lies with the Government to make a judgement call and take action if they think others are deferring their responsibility.

 

[Muttley]

This from the US

And to be fair to Johnson he has taken responisibity albeit slowly but he has been shown to be completely out of his depth. He is no Churchill, he's not even Chamberlain. He failed to act when there was a real and present danger to the people of this country. Yes, the Chinese government has some responsibility. Not sure wtf anyone can blame the WHO for?

But Johnson was the one who should have been cancelling the visit of Madrid supporters to Liverpool and the Cheltenham racing. He should have implemented testing like the Germans did. He should have locked down sooner. He waflled and he prevaricated. He should be judged on his performance and so far it has been pitiful.

Someone on here said looking at the Conservative front bench is like looking at the Boro subs bench you can't see anyone there who you might trust to improve things.

 

[Randy]

Oh dear...

What? Don't believe me? Tell me why they aren't to blame when the virus started in China and they denied it for so long. Tell me why the world health organisation tweeted that there was no evidence that the virus could be transmitted from human to human when that's how it spread so quickly?

 

[1finny]

What? Don't believe me? Tell me why they aren't to blame when the virus started in China and they denied it for so long. Tell me why the world health organisation tweeted that there was no evidence that the virus could be transmitted from human to human when that's how it spread so quickly?

Randy, pretty sure at the time China got a lot of plaudits for being open about the virus. May be wrong tho.
One thing that definitely happened was they gave the make up of the virus to health organisations the world over to allow investigation and vaccine investigation.
Since then they have sent medics to Italy and UK

Not a fan of theirs but just wonder if the narrative has changed because of the severity

 

[asredastheycome]

Someone on here said looking at the Conservative front bench is like looking at the Boro subs bench you can't see anyone there who you might trust to improve things.

 

[bear66]

100 days of the virus

We had deaths from pneumonia in February that are now believed to have been Covid-19. And we had warning there was a new virus around at the time.

 

[Muttley]

when the virus started in China

We don't know that.

We don't know at what point it "jumped the species barrier", it certainly "exploded" in Wuhan, China but the very first instance in a human is almost impossible to know. Take the example of the 1918 H1N1 Pandemic, we can almost certainly state it did not originate in Spain, it was probably from the USA but even now we do not know.

 

[bear66]

We don't know that.

We don't know at what point it "jumped the species barrier", it certainly "exploded" in Wuhan, China but the very first instance in a human is almost impossible to know. Take the example of the 1918 H1N1 Pandemic, we can almost certainly state it did not originate in Spain, it was probably from the USA but even now we do not know.

The narrative is that it jumped species from bats to an intermediary to us. The first registered case in China had no link to the Wuhan market. But strangely, a study of 161 strains of coronavirus found that the only ones with links to bats were found in Australia and the USA. The Wuhan samples didn't.

 

[A]

Not but if they made the same mistakes then they would and should be accountable for them, we can only go on what we have and Labour or Lib Dem’s or Brexit Party may well have done worse rather than better but we don’t know, all we can go on is the data available to us and how it compares to other countries in similar situations, I think a good example is allowing Madrid fans into Liverpool when Madrid was in lockdown was something that should not have been allowed, you can say Liverpool, UEFA or the FA should have taken the decision but ultimately it lies with the Government to make a judgement call and take action if they think others are deferring their responsibility.

Absolutely A_M, I just disagree with the narrative that Johnson and his party are doing a terrible job. Of course mistakes have been, and likely will continue to be made. Hindsight is a wonderful visionary, so the implication that a n other party would not make them is pointless in my view. Perfection is a fallow crop in these crises and I don't really think anyone truly believes that Johnson would or even could navigate these waters without veering off course at certain junctures

 

[A]

We don't know that.

We don't know at what point it "jumped the species barrier", it certainly "exploded" in Wuhan, China but the very first instance in a human is almost impossible to know. Take the example of the 1918 H1N1 Pandemic, we can almost certainly state it did not originate in Spain, it was probably from the USA but even now we do not know.

The Spanish Flu is something of a misnomer though isn't it? Is it not widely known why it became known by that name and that has nothing to do with whether it originated in Spain or that Spain was most adversely affected

 

[Laughing]

Absolutely A_M, I just disagree with the narrative that Johnson and his party are doing a terrible job. Of course mistakes have been, and likely will continue to be made. Hindsight is a wonderful visionary, so the implication that a n other party would not make them is pointless in my view. Perfection is a fallow crop in these crises and I don't really think anyone truly believes that Johnson would or even could navigate these waters without veering off course at certain junctures

What a crock artie the government have been woeful, and in my opinion criminal in their handling of the crisis. I could go on, but I think everyone knows my opinion of where Johnson went wrong.

 

[SmallTown]

What? Don't believe me? Tell me why they aren't to blame when the virus started in China and they denied it for so long. Tell me why the world health organisation tweeted that there was no evidence that the virus could be transmitted from human to human when that's how it spread so quickly?

You think a single country is responsible for a virus becoming novel? Explain that one to me please. Using other epidemics like swine flu, Spanish flu, bird flu etc to explain how al of a sudden this one can be China’s fault?

 

[Alvez_48]

Wow this went miles off topic

 

[Powerage]

I'm currently working in Greece, been here for the last 10 months. As soon as the virus numbers started to rise significantly the government took strict and hard hitting measures. No ambiguous do's and don'ts just straight forward rules on what we can and can't do. If I want to leave my hotel I must fill in a form stating where I am going and for what reason. I must carry this form along g with my passport and a certificate from my employer at all times and be able to produce them upon request by the police. Failure to do so results in a €150 fine, no questions. Any subsequent infringement doubles the fine. This applies not only to me but the whole population. At today's count there have been 87 deaths in Greece. I believe we have been massively let down by our government. Strict and swift measures like this could have prevented many casualties.

 

[Muttley]

I just disagree with the narrative that Johnson and his party are doing a terrible job

It's not a narrative Artie, it is an opinion. You might think they are doing an A1 job, that is your opinion. I can back my opinion by pointing to the actions of other governments that have better managed to limit the infection among their population. You seem to think that Labour might have been worse. It's a childish argument. A Corbyn government might have been better? We'll never know, it is pointless speculation that is simply used to cover the inadequate response of the government. Like wanting to place the blame on the Chinese Government to somehow absolve Johnson. It doesn't wash. Other Western Governments had the same warning as we did and have done measurably better.

The Spanish Flu is something of a misnomer though isn't it? Is it not widely known why it became known by that name and that has nothing to do with whether it originated in Spain or that Spain was most adversely affected

Yes, Artie, that is the point. Well done.

It was named that because the Governments at the time were involved in a small kerfuffle we now call World War One and the American's certainly knew about it in early 1918 but it wasn't until Spain announced that they had this new influenza that the adversaries turned round and pointed at Spain. Because there was blame to be apportioned. Which is what Trump et al are trying to do by attempting to rename COVID-19 as "The Chinese Virus".

Make no mistake, this is already political.

 

[Funky_Chicken]

Absolutely A_M, I just disagree with the narrative that Johnson and his party are doing a terrible job. Of course mistakes have been, and likely will continue to be made. Hindsight is a wonderful visionary, so the implication that a n other party would not make them is pointless in my view. Perfection is a fallow crop in these crises and I don't really think anyone truly believes that Johnson would or even could navigate these waters without veering off course at certain junctures

If you don’t think the Tories are doing a poor job of handling the Coronavirus situation I’d like to ask the following questions
Why weren’t frontline NHS provided with adequate PPE from the very start.
Why weren’t adequate provisions made for testing from the very start, with NHS staff being a priority.
Why were 200000 people allowed to gather at Cheltenham racecourse.
Why were 3500 fans from Madrid which was rife with the virus at the time allowed into Liverpool.
Why weren’t travellers being temperature checked at airports as in other countries, and indeed why were they allowed in at all in many cases.
Why did the Prime Minister think it was a good idea to disappear on holiday for two weeks as the crisis was unfolding for all the world to see in China.
I could go on but that’s a start

 

[1finny]

If you don’t think the Tories are doing a poor job of handling the Coronavirus situation I’d like to ask the following questions
Why weren’t frontline NHS provided with adequate PPE from the very start.
Why weren’t adequate provisions made for testing from the very start, with NHS staff being a priority.
Why were 200000 people allowed to gather at Cheltenham racecourse.
Why were 3500 fans from Madrid which was rife with the virus at the time allowed into Liverpool.
Why weren’t travellers being temperature checked at airports as in other countries, and indeed why were they allowed in at all in many cases.
Why did the Prime Minister think it was a good idea to disappear on holiday for two weeks as the crisis was unfolding for all the world to see in China.
I could go on but that’s a start

Can I add some questions

Why did we turn down the offer from the EU of 30000 ventilators
Why did UK ventilator manufacturers who were prepared to ‘gear up’ receive no response or orders for over 6 weeks
Why did we not test test test
Why did we say there was a problem with the ‘testing agent’ when those who made it said - ‘nope’ wejust haven’t been asked
Why did our leader shake hands with those that had a virus
Why didn’t the chief medical officer instruct him not to
Why did our leader say he was going to visit his mum on the Friday before Mother’s Day
Why did our leader and his colleagues not practice social distancing
Why are we the only country where 3 key members of the government have had to self isolate or contract the disease

Apart from that - they are probably doing a great job

 

[A]

It's not a narrative Artie, it is an opinion. You might think they are doing an A1 job, that is your opinion. I can back my opinion by pointing to the actions of other governments that have better managed to limit the infection among their population. You seem to think that Labour might have been worse. It's a childish argument. A Corbyn government might have been better? We'll never know, it is pointless speculation that is simply used to cover the inadequate response of the government. Like wanting to place the blame on the Chinese Government to somehow absolve Johnson. It doesn't wash. Other Western Governments had the same warning as we did and have done measurably better.


Yes, Artie, that is the point. Well done.

It was named that because the Governments at the time were involved in a small kerfuffle we now call World War One and the American's certainly knew about it in early 1918 but it wasn't until Spain announced that they had this new influenza that the adversaries turned round and pointed at Spain. Because there was blame to be apportioned. Which is what Trump et al are trying to do by attempting to rename COVID-19 as "The Chinese Virus".

Make no mistake, this is already political.

That's not why it's known Spanish Flu. During the war most newspapers were filled with propaganda to keep the spirits of the fighting nations as buoyant as possible. Spain was neutral so didn't fill their columns with propaganda, instead they reported on the flu pandemic. So because it was largely only reported in the Spanish press, it became known as the Spanish Flu

 

[A]

Ok, some of you think he's doing an appalling job, I think he's doing a far from perfect job with many mistakes, but I don't think it's as horrible as some people do. It's all about opinions and we all have our own reasons for reaching our conclusions, which is fair enough in my view

 

[Randy]

You think a single country is responsible for a virus becoming novel? Explain that one to me please. Using other epidemics like swine flu, Spanish flu, bird flu etc to explain how al of a sudden this one can be China’s fault?

I believe China is responsible for the rapid spread of the virus around the world yes. They refused to clarify they had a problem, continued to let people in and out of the country and falsified the figures. You cannot tell me that a country of that size only had 3500 ish deaths when you see what's happened here, Spain, Italy, USA, Iran, France?
If they had reported the problem earlier, locked places down earlier and shared ALL of the information earlier the rest of the world would be in a better position then we are now and that's just common knowledge.