What have Coventry done differently to us?

Nano said:
We really under-performed last year with 75 points because we were a 90 point capable team that didn't start our season until November (1.06ppg pre- Carrick, 49 pts total pro-rata vs 1.93ppg with Carrick, 89 pts total pro-rata) so the 75 points isn't our benchmark.

To go from being a team capable of automatics and getting 90 points to one with fewer than 70 points and not really being in contention for the playoffs at any point in the season is definitely falling off a cliff.
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You can't add caveats to last year's points total and not do the same with this year's points total.

We have dropped off by 6-9 points, that's a fact. The rest is all conjecture

As I said - last season's starting XI was better. But we didn't own most of its best parts. This year we've been deprived of almost all of its remaining bits by injuries. That has to factor into any comparison.

I'm as disappointed as anyone that we haven't done better - but we don't have a time machine. We have grown as a team and this summer have a lot fewer gaps to fill.
 
Redwurzel said:
I seem to remember Coventry invested nearly all the money they received in the Summer, while we seemed to invest only 50%

Example Akpom sold for £10.4m and Latte Lath bought for £4.3m
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OUT:
Akpom 10m
Payero 2m
Bola 300k
TOTAL: 12.3m

IN:
Dieng 2m
Engel 1.7
Bangura 900k
RVDB 300k
Silvera 700k
Lath 4.2m
Rogers 1.5m
TOTAL: 11.3m

Pretty much even.

Cov did invest early, but they also got off to a shocker.

Redwurzel said:
We tended to buy players that needed development work i.e. players that were either young or had come from different cultures.
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so did Coventry, Ellis Simms had 45 only 17 league starts at this level or higher and is young
Sakamoto had played in Belgium and Japan
Van Ewijk had only played in Netherlands and was young
Haji Wright - Turkey, Denmark and Belgium, smattering of Budesliga appearances

Mason-Clarke a kid with largely lower league appearances, Bradley-Collins championship backup GK, Bobby Thomas young lower league player,

Latiboudiere was a championship ready player, Kitching had one year experience at this level, everything else lower leagues.

Other than the Silvera curveball, I don't really see any difference, players largely signed from second rate leagues like Turkey and Belgium, or lower league or kids. They signed one proven championship player in Latiboudiere, we signed Dieng (and O'Brien on loan). They went for Hadji from abroad, we went for Lath; they went for Ellis simms as a young british option, we went for Rogers. They went for Van Ewijk as a young Netherlands prospect and we went for Rav.

I'd argue we did a lot better value for money looking at that lot.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
As I said - last season's starting XI was better. But we didn't own most of its best parts. This year we've been deprived of almost all of its remaining bits by injuries. That has to factor into any comparison.
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Last years regular starting XI:
Steffen - replaced with similar ability in Dieng but we own him
Smith - deprived of him all season, Ayling replaced eventually
Fry - Rav replaced, , improvement
Lenihan - deprived all season Clarke has replaced eventually
Giles - big dip to replace with Engel
Howson - still howson, but a year older
Hackney - missing most of the season, or not 100% fit, replaced by Barlaser who is poor
Forss - injured most of the season, Jones replaced him and has been ok, but not the same goal output
Akpom - massive loss, replaced with Azaz who has potential
McGree - missing most of the season, or injured, replaced by Greenwood, big drop off
Archer - Replaced by Lath.

The big issues are Engel acclimating or being good enough; Hackney and McGree being perpetually injured; dip in goal output from Forss/Akpom to Jones/Azaz

5 key roles have dropped in the last 12 months (LB, CM, CM, RW, 10), but 3 of them were due to injury, so we have 2 more to fix. With the squad we have, we are in a much better position than 12 months ago, and longer term, better than 24 months ago. I think we will get off to a flier next season
 
LaPennaBianca said:
You can't add caveats to last year's points total and not do the same with this year's points total.

We have dropped off by 6-9 points, that's a fact. The rest is all conjecture

As I said - last season's starting XI was better. But we didn't own most of its best parts. This year we've been deprived of almost all of its remaining bits by injuries. That has to factor into any comparison.

I'm as disappointed as anyone that we haven't done better - but we don't have a time machine. We have grown as a team and this summer have a lot fewer gaps to fill.
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You can when there is a major change like sacking your manager. The Wilder and Carrick teams last season were very different in terms of performance, even when using the same players. I wouldn't compare us this season against just the Wilder part of the season and say we made a big improvement either. You can definitely compare our matches under Carrick last season (1.93ppg) and this season (1.47ppg) and see that we have fallen off a cliff.

I agree with your final sentence. I don't agree with people thinking finishing marginally above Coventry this is an achievement of any sort and I don't agree that Coventry have fallen away. It is us dropping to their level that is the issue. We have a long way to go to get back to where we were last season. It's not impossible, it's the championship, we could be the best team in the league next season with a few good signings but we could easily be the same as we were this year i.e. no more than a playoff hopeful.
 
Nano said:
You can when there is a major change like sacking your manager. The Wilder and Carrick teams last season were very different in terms of performance, even when using the same players. I wouldn't compare us this season against just the Wilder part of the season and say we made a big improvement either. You can definitely compare our matches under Carrick last season (1.93ppg) and this season (1.47ppg) and see that we have fallen off a cliff.

I agree with your final sentence. I don't agree with people thinking finishing marginally above Coventry this is an achievement of any sort and I don't agree that Coventry have fallen away. It is us dropping to their level that is the issue. We have a long way to go to get back to where we were last season. It's not impossible, it's the championship, we could be the best team in the league next season with a few good signings but we could easily be the same as we were this year i.e. no more than a playoff hopeful.
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We did have 10 weeks last year where we played the best football I've seen Boro play, possibly ever on a consistent basis, we were untamable at that point. Injuries did for us when Akpom got injured and tried to continue, Archer dropped off, and the wheels came off. We are probably a couple of good signings away from being able to play like that again. Not a million miles away.
 
BoroMart said:
We did have 10 weeks last year where we played the best football I've seen Boro play, possibly ever on a consistent basis, we were untamable at that point. Injuries did for us when Akpom got injured and tried to continue, Archer dropped off, and the wheels came off. We are probably a couple of good signings away from being able to play like that again. Not a million miles away.
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I think we are an Akpom away from being able to play like that. We've got the bones of a good squad. Our regulars are all good (but not great) players, our back-up players are better than our back-up players were but we are still lacking the star quality of a player like Akpom to take us to the next level. We have lots of players that can deliver quality at times but being good enough to do it every week is a level I don't think we have anyone capable of reaching.

You can win promotion with good players consistently performing without star players, as Ipswich have proven, but it's harder to keep up for a full season.
 
Bruce said:
We haven't fallen off a cliff but we have gone backwards this season. It was probably impossible not to.

Coventry had to cope with the same issues as we did and have also gone backwards. In part due to a horrendous end to the season as injuries and a cup run caught up with them.

We lost Akpom plus 4-5 first team loanees.
They lost Gyokeres, Hamer and 4-5 first team loanees. They were also unable to persuade O'Hare to sign a new contract. Like us, they focused on replacing loanees with permanents. The loans they bought in this season don't seem to have been great but their permanent buys were very good.

Bear in mind also that they didn't even have a ground to play in at the beginning of last season so they have done well to have been in contention for the playoffs for as long as they have.

Right now, I reckon they probably have a slightly better squad than us but I think we have more money to play with to improve the squad this summer.

I think they'll be hoping that they can keep the core of the squad, minus O'Hare, together and manage a serious attempt at the top 4 next season after a year of bedding in this season.
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O hare not signing his contract is a weird move. I don’t think robin’s would’ve allowed a poor contract offer therefore I’m assuming O hare thinks he’s worth more when actually, he could do a lot worse than have robin’s guiding him and I’d attribute a lot of his development down to robin’s and his calm, firm and honest approach with O hare.
Looks like the lad is getting some poor advice

I wouldn’t have him here.
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
O hare not signing his contract is a weird move. I don’t think robin’s would’ve allowed a poor contract offer therefore I’m assuming O hare thinks he’s worth more when actually, he could do a lot worse than have robin’s guiding him and I’d attribute a lot of his development down to robin’s and his calm, firm and honest approach with O hare.
Looks like the lad is getting some poor advice

I wouldn’t have him here.
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There's reported to be plenty of PL interest, He can probably triple his salary.
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
O hare not signing his contract is a weird move. I don’t think robin’s would’ve allowed a poor contract offer therefore I’m assuming O hare thinks he’s worth more when actually, he could do a lot worse than have robin’s guiding him and I’d attribute a lot of his development down to robin’s and his calm, firm and honest approach with O hare.
Looks like the lad is getting some poor advice

I wouldn’t have him here.
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You wouldn’t have O’Hare at boro? Really?
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
O hare not signing his contract is a weird move. I don’t think robin’s would’ve allowed a poor contract offer therefore I’m assuming O hare thinks he’s worth more when actually, he could do a lot worse than have robin’s guiding him and I’d attribute a lot of his development down to robin’s and his calm, firm and honest approach with O hare.
Looks like the lad is getting some poor advice

I wouldn’t have him here.
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He's only doing what Akpom, Rogers and Tavernier have done, he wants a crack at a higher league and has a lot to offer. He'll have been tapped up a while ago.
 
Nano said:
I think we are an Akpom away from being able to play like that. We've got the bones of a good squad. Our regulars are all good (but not great) players, our back-up players are better than our back-up players were but we are still lacking the star quality of a player like Akpom to take us to the next level. We have lots of players that can deliver quality at times but being good enough to do it every week is a level I don't think we have anyone capable of reaching.

You can win promotion with good players consistently performing without star players, as Ipswich have proven, but it's harder to keep up for a full season.
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I would happily go back in for a loan for Akpom with a commitment to buy for 7.5m if we get promoted.......I think he would like that, the question is if Ajax would, I suspect they want to sell straight away and would want us to take most of his current wages if he's on loan....we couldn't afford to pay more than half.
 
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