U-turn... guess who?

[HolgateCorner]

Richard Murphy.

Labour is claiming that £28 billion of investment in climate change a year is not possible. But that’s not true. That’s Starmer’s choice.

I posted this thread on Twitter this morning: Labour says it cannot now afford to spend £28 billion a year to deliver the investment in the climate transition that we all know we need. Let’s leave the politics and even the climate bit aside. Let me just look at the affordability...

www.taxresearch.org.uk

Rishi mentioned the 28 billion in his Tory Party broadcast the other day, I think it was his parting and most memorable shot - the message was put Labour back in and they will spend all your money and put you back to square one.

He also had a very simple message that the inflation problems were caused by Covid and Putin.

The cap doffers love this sort of thing.

 

[SuperStu]

Sorry, I may have misled you.
The compromise I was talking about was - the personal compromise of ideology.

The ideological compromises both Corbyn and Starmer have made were/are to gain power.

Nope thats what I'm talking about also. You've got a faction within Labour that undermined Miliband, went off the deep end sabotaging Corbyn, and that outright lied to win Starmer the leadership, turning around and telling people that want left wing governance "even if we offer you nothing you must still vote for us".

 

[SuperStu]

Richard Murphy.

Labour is claiming that £28 billion of investment in climate change a year is not possible. But that’s not true. That’s Starmer’s choice.

I posted this thread on Twitter this morning: Labour says it cannot now afford to spend £28 billion a year to deliver the investment in the climate transition that we all know we need. Let’s leave the politics and even the climate bit aside. Let me just look at the affordability...

www.taxresearch.org.uk

Great thread that. Hopefully plenty on here read it.

 

[SuperStu]

But..... Diane Abbott

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x.com

The brass neck on James OB! As if he wasn't a constant critic of Corbyn's Labour! He hammered Abbott at the time!

 

[Scrote]

Forty years on and I’m still struggling to understand what Thatcher, beyond her own image making and career, was trying to achieve for the people of this country.

Yep, I agree with this. I still don't know what she stood for.

If she had used the promotion of the free market to achieve some target improvements for the country, then that would have been a proper vision and, if achieved, would have represented success.

Is this the new post-truthism?

Who honestly doesn't understand that Thatcher wasn't working for the interests of the common man.

Her success was the destruction of council housing and the proliferation of the rentier-class.

Her success was the theft of national assets and the continued theft through subsidies to their privatised reincarnations.

Her success was the normalisation of the lies of a trickle-down, Laffer curve, credit-card economy.

I could go on but others have highlighted other areas she was successful in.

Make no mistake another tory parliament and the 300k deaths caused by them would double

Luckily deaths only count as being catastrophic once they get over 300k, so the people that helped cause those can sleep soundly and look forward to running the country.

 

[1finny]

Nope thats what I'm talking about also. You've got a faction within Labour that undermined Miliband, went off the deep end sabotaging Corbyn, and that outright lied to win Starmer the leadership, turning around and telling people that want left wing governance "even if we offer you nothing you must still vote for us".

I agree with you

Great thread that. Hopefully plenty on here read it.

In fairness, you could have written it - it’s a view shared by a huge Corbyn supporter.

Let’s not pretend this is an objective view. He is biased.

The economics of this are debated all over the place.
The decision is a political one which, if not made, (IMO) would have been a weakness in the campaign which Murdoch et al would have been all over.

As I’ve already said, I think it’s wrong, it sticks in the throat and think he could have stuck with it and gained power.
However - I understand the reasoning.

 

[HolgateCorner]

Is this the new post-truthism?

Who honestly doesn't understand that Thatcher wasn't working for the interests of the common man.

Her success was the destruction of council housing and the proliferation of the rentier-class.

Her success was the theft of national assets and the continued theft through subsidies to their privatised reincarnations.

Her success was the normalisation of the lies of a trickle-down, Laffer curve, credit-card economy.

I could go on but others have highlighted other areas she was successful in.


Luckily deaths only count as being catastrophic once they get over 300k, so the people that helped cause those can sleep soundly and look forward to running the country.

We are on a different page unfortunately in what we think politicians are elected into parliament to do.

Anybody thinking Thatcher was a success for the people of this country is in cuckoo land.

If you think success is promoting the cause of rich right wingers then she did succeed, to an extent, in doing that. But that’s not my definition of success and this society whether you are rich or poor is better off working together, there is more to the success equation than just making the rich richer, even for the rich.

 

[Laughing]

We are on a different page unfortunately in what we think politicians are elected into parliament to do.

Anybody thinking Thatcher was a success for the people of this country is in cuckoo land.

If you think success is promoting the cause of rich right wingers then she did succeed, to an extent, in doing that. But that’s not my definition of success and this society whether you are rich or poor is better off working together, there is more to the success equation than just making the rich richer, even for the rich.

The only person who can define thatchers criteria is Thatcher herself.

I would be surprised if she hadn't considered herself a success.

 

[SuperStu]

We are on a different page unfortunately in what we think politicians are elected into parliament to do.

Anybody thinking Thatcher was a success for the people of this country is in cuckoo land.

If you think success is promoting the cause of rich right wingers then she did succeed, to an extent, in doing that. But that’s not my definition of success and this society whether you are rich or poor is better off working together, there is more to the success equation than just making the rich richer, even for the rich.

Feel like you're just being disingenuous at this point HC. Scrotes made his politics clear on here plenty of times. He's pretty obviously not a Thatcherite.

The point being made was that Thatcher had a set political ideology that she pursued. In contrast to the claim earlier in the thread that she did whatever she thought might garner support with the public.

 

[Abel Tasman]

The brass neck on James OB! As if he wasn't a constant critic of Corbyn's Labour! He hammered Abbott at the time!

I don't recall him "hammering Abott at the time". . Yes he was critical of their political naivety which ultimately lost them the chance to gain power. I am not a big fan of OBrien for his past politics but he certainly up there as one of the leading media voices against this bunch of populists.

 

[HolgateCorner]

Feel like you're just being disingenuous at this point HC. Scrotes made his politics clear on here plenty of times. He's pretty obviously not a Thatcherite.

The point being made was that Thatcher had a set political ideology that she pursued. In contrast to the claim earlier in the thread that she did whatever she thought might garner support with the public.

Yes and I disagree with him, I don’t credit Thatcher with any kind of ideological plan whatsoever other than being populist and naturally right wing, she was a shambles.

 

[HolgateCorner]

The only person who can define thatchers criteria is Thatcher herself.

I would be surprised if she hadn't considered herself a success.

There is no doubt that she thought she was successful.

I met her once when she visited Heysham Power Station and she was surrounded by a bunch of fawning, smirking, pompous minders who nodded and giggled at everything she said. It was nauseating.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

We are on a different page unfortunately in what we think politicians are elected into parliament to do.

Anybody thinking Thatcher was a success for the people of this country is in cuckoo land.

Come on, you are being disingenuous. Nobody on this thread has said that Thatcher was good for the country and when me and Scrote alluded to her success it's clear that we meant she was successful in that she achieved what she set out to do.

She must have been because 34 years on we can't escape from her legacy.

 

[HolgateCorner]

Come on, you are being disingenuous. Nobody on this thread has said that Thatcher was good for the country and when me and Scrote alluded to her success it's clear that we meant she was successful in that she achieved what she set out to do.

She must have been because 34 years on we can't escape from her legacy.

Fair enough, I just couldn’t stand anything about her, she was a disaster we have never recovered from. The food banks are rooted in the shambles of her term in office.

 

[Scrote]

Anybody thinking Thatcher was a success for the people of this country is in cuckoo land.

She was a success for the people that she wanted to be a success for. The country is where it is because of Thatcher and her legacy.

I don’t credit Thatcher with any kind of ideological plan whatsoever other than being populist

If you want to point to the bits in her 1979 manifesto that she rolled back on due to populism I'm always happy to be educated.

I don't recall him "hammering Abott at the time". . Yes he was critical of their political naivety which ultimately lost them the chance to gain power. I am not a big fan of OBrien for his past politics but he certainly up there as one of the leading media voices against this bunch of populists.

He may not have been a cheeleader for Johnson but he derided Corbyn and Corbynism at every opportunity. This "bunch of populists" are in power due to people like James O'Brien (interesting to see Ayesha Hazarika in the Labour peerage list).