Two more people beheaded in France

Chris_Boro

Well-known member
What's the answer then if not a harder line?

I've already gave my views on what's needed. You've just described them as "hogwash".

You're ignoring the real issues in favour of a reactionary sledgehammer approach which will only lead to further violence and unrest.

You're view is become more extremist the more you're challenged.
 

TomPepper

Active member
How is that? I've only said the same things I have said in my first post which I believe. I dont think the current approach in France is working and I think as you put it a sledgehammer approach would keep citizens safer especially in the short term
 

Chris_Boro

Well-known member
How is that? I've only said the same things I have said in my first post which I believe. I dont think the current approach in France is working and I think as you put it a sledgehammer approach would keep citizens safer especially in the short term

But you don't know what the French authorities are doing to make that claim or how many potential terrorist acts have been prevented.

History provides you with more than enough evidence of what happens as a result of sledgehammer tactics and invariably, its innocent people caught in the middle that suffer the most.
 

parmoboy

Well-known member
I don't think it helps that the Islamic world tends to have religion at the heart of their institutions - whether legislative, judicial, economic or social. These countries tend to be non-secular and religious laws override any other. It creates huge issues.

Despite living in the West, Islamic extremists are likely to have the same ideology as those who live in certain Islamic countries, as they are stuck in medieval times when it comes to the death penalty. They'll think nothing of beheading three women in the name of their religion.
 

Nash

Member
This is what you get with unvetted migration. Invite people into the country with a totally different set of values than the country than your own. Why should any sovereign nation have to change policies or lifestyles for migrants from another country. Australia had it correct when the prime minister said, and I'm paraphrasing. Look we wear shorts, bikinis and we love it if you are offended by this we understand but fck off back because we are not going to change.
 

American_Mary

Well-known member
What is needed is intelligence and better networking within the Muslim communities of France, the Islamic community needs to step up and identify those within it that are the problem, without early warning then these atrocities will continue and their unrealistic worldview manifest itself with violence.

Integration and adaption are paramount in resolving these issues, further alienation and punishing those that obey the law will just cause tensions to rise and risk further violence from both sides, French people are more volatile than us Brits.

There will be closer scrutiny of the Islamic community but it has to be done in the right way and with the consent of the Mosques, Imam’s and they have to be at the forefront of a root and branch removal of radicalisation.

I know the church where this latest attack happened, it’s on the Main Street in the middle of the city, there would have been armed police all over the area so how he’s managed to carry out the attack is a little bit surprising given my experience of that area of Nice.
 

coluka

Well-known member
Is it now the job of a football messageboard to offer solutions to complex political and cultural problems ???

What good do your "solutions" do, other than get yourself worked up and make you look a bit racist and hysterical on a messageboard ?

That is a part of the problem, the assumption or making out someone might be or must be racist because they hold strong views. That is in part why the young security guard failed to respond to the Manchester bomber issue when brought to him. People should not be afraid to be able to have an honest discussion without the presumption of racism. We all should be confident to challenge one another whoever we are if we have a legitimate worry or concern, whatever colour, gender or religion so things are resolved, people educated better. If a concern can be addressed by this, what is the problem?

Terrorists live amongst law abiding people living their double lives. History tells us that families, friends, Imams etc have suspicions about people but rarely discuss it or raise it with the Police. They may comment after the event, but what good is that. Why wait? is it a cultural thing, like grassing is a no no on a sink estate?

Unless we talk openly, allow people to express their views, fears, concerns on all sides instead of sweeping things under the carpet, nothing will change. Terror killings cause mistrust and irrational fears in their own religious peers as well as others, they add to divisions and drive discussion and learning underground. Muslims have a huge part to play, but many of them despite being good citizens are afraid to rock the boat in their communities. The hardline traditionalist have unlawful and unreasonable powers from within their mosques to individual homes just the same as we do from our churches, town halls, clubs, communities and homes. Bearing down on free speech and making people afraid to talk for fear of being labelled racist fuels the problem.

We all need to learn from each others fears, to try to experience walking in someone else's shoes, encouraging openness, and friendly mixed discussion groups to improve trust. Muslims need to visit churches and christians mosques to experience one anothers worlds. The fact that Muslims are a minority and most (but not all) terrorists in the UK claim to be Muslim or come from that background, therefore they have to see the bigger picture, they have to understand the other side of a coin and be seen to be proactive in rooting out their own bad apples. They are not too visible in doing that in my view.
 

chickenrunner

Well-known member
Is it now the job of a football messageboard to offer solutions to complex political and cultural problems ???

What good do your "solutions" do, other than get yourself worked up and make you look a bit racist and hysterical on a messageboard ?

Hysterical, that's a good word. Someone in this thread claimed we were facing a threat to our way of life, they were right. But it doesn't wear a suicide vest, carry a knife or follow any religion and you'd need a microscope to see it. Its killed hundreds of times more people in the UK in a matter of months than all the terror attacks added together over the last 20 years.
 

JL2020

Member
Look we’ve created a problem for ourselves by bombing these country’s and then telling all the people we p****d off to come and live in our country’s.

europe as a continent has became obsessed with immigrants and refugees, it’s all we’ve ever heard for the past 5-10 years. I think it HAS gone to far and we’ve created a huge problem for ourselves and people have every right to question it.

France seems to have a constant terrorist threat over its head, one thing that’s been happening there that you barely hear about is Chechens and Armenian gang wars. They literally shoot each other in the streets with ak47a. A couple of nights ago gangs of Armenians were marching through A French city looking for Chechens. They ended up fighting coppers instead.

Sweden has been decimated by it all, rapes are through the roof over there that you won’t hear about. Lots of ‘16 year old’ immigrants who are clearly in their 20s are being put in schools with kids. I expect nobody will believe me but I’ve seen the Swedish newspaper reports on them, I’ve seen accounts from swedes living in areas affected by huge immigration. One politician there had to write to a university as students housed in one area were getting their dorms broken into on a daily basis, girls were getting harassed by immigrants who congregated outside. I know how it sounds but this is from the letter I read not my words.

My point is this forced integration doesn’t work, people don’t WANT to integrate I’m pretty sure that’s proven by now. This isn’t a ‘all Muslims are terrorists’ thing, it’s just humans. Immigrants come over, go to the same areas and form ghettos, they don’t integrate with us and we don’t with them. Immigration needs to be organic and for the right reasons. People take more care of what fish they put in the same tank than we do with this stuff.
 
Blaming all Muslims for the actions of the radical minority is like blaming all Beatles fans for the actions of Charles Manson and his followers.
 

Same_as_before

Well-known member
What is needed is intelligence and better networking within the Muslim communities of France, the Islamic community needs to step up and identify those within it that are the problem, without early warning then these atrocities will continue and their unrealistic worldview manifest itself with violence.

Integration and adaption are paramount in resolving these issues, further alienation and punishing those that obey the law will just cause tensions to rise and risk further violence from both sides, French people are more volatile than us Brits.

There will be closer scrutiny of the Islamic community but it has to be done in the right way and with the consent of the Mosques, Imam’s and they have to be at the forefront of a root and branch removal of radicalisation.

I know the church where this latest attack happened, it’s on the Main Street in the middle of the city, there would have been armed police all over the area so how he’s managed to carry out the attack is a little bit surprising given my experience of that area of Nice.
I agree with the overall view. Apart from the last paragraph, I know the area quite well. If a lunatic goes in a church there is no way of knowing what he us about to do. I think the police are blameless. What worries me is that the fanatics are winning if we have to change our way if living.
 

JL2020

Member
The only grim reading is people refusing to accept there’s an issue with immigration in Europe. As soon as anyone has anything remotely negative to say regarding the subject you’re just met with ‘oh he thinks all Muslims are terrorists’.
 

HiredGun123

New member
What is needed is intelligence and better networking within the Muslim communities of France, the Islamic community needs to step up and identify those within it that are the problem, without early warning then these atrocities will continue and their unrealistic worldview manifest itself with violence.

Sadly it’s much easier said than done. A lot of Muslims will not condemn what’s happening or help fight against it out of fear that they will get the repercussions of it and be seen as a “kafir”. It’s one of the worst things you can be accused of in the Muslim community and that’s why even a lot of good Muslims you will meet on the street will never openly the condemn terrorism in public or denounce terror groups. It doesn’t mean they support it, it’s just easier to be quiet.

So sadly I think it’s wishful thinking. But in theory I agree that’s what should be happening to try and tackle the problem.

When the majority of these attacks take place, the culprit has often already been known to authorities, which means there is some sort of thread that link them to some organisations or something. Of course it’s almost impossible to stop random attacks but the fact a lot of these people are already known to authorities means they have some knowledge of the foundations of the problem.
 

American_Mary

Well-known member
I agree with the overall view. Apart from the last paragraph, I know the area quite well. If a lunatic goes in a church there is no way of knowing what he us about to do. I think the police are blameless. What worries me is that the fanatics are winning if we have to change our way if living.

Sorry, I didn’t made myself very clear, I wasn’t blaming the police it was more a comment that it seems an armed police presence isn’t deterring these attacks in well populated areas so adding additional police to the streets isn’t the answer.
 

American_Mary

Well-known member
Look we’ve created a problem for ourselves by bombing these country’s and then telling all the people we p****d off to come and live in our country’s.

europe as a continent has became obsessed with immigrants and refugees, it’s all we’ve ever heard for the past 5-10 years. I think it HAS gone to far and we’ve created a huge problem for ourselves and people have every right to question it.

France seems to have a constant terrorist threat over its head, one thing that’s been happening there that you barely hear about is Chechens and Armenian gang wars. They literally shoot each other in the streets with ak47a. A couple of nights ago gangs of Armenians were marching through A French city looking for Chechens. They ended up fighting coppers instead.

Sweden has been decimated by it all, rapes are through the roof over there that you won’t hear about. Lots of ‘16 year old’ immigrants who are clearly in their 20s are being put in schools with kids. I expect nobody will believe me but I’ve seen the Swedish newspaper reports on them, I’ve seen accounts from swedes living in areas affected by huge immigration. One politician there had to write to a university as students housed in one area were getting their dorms broken into on a daily basis, girls were getting harassed by immigrants who congregated outside. I know how it sounds but this is from the letter I read not my words.

My point is this forced integration doesn’t work, people don’t WANT to integrate I’m pretty sure that’s proven by now. This isn’t a ‘all Muslims are terrorists’ thing, it’s just humans. Immigrants come over, go to the same areas and form ghettos, they don’t integrate with us and we don’t with them. Immigration needs to be organic and for the right reasons. People take more care of what fish they put in the same tank than we do with this stuff.

The Swedish rape myth is easily dispelled with a little bit of research, the main reasons for the increase in numbers is down to a change in 2008 on how sexual assaults are recorded, now if a person is sexually assaulted by the same person on several occasions each assault is recorded as an individual crime previously it was recorded as one, the second increase was in 2015 when crimes like sexual harassment by telephone and flashing got put into the category with rape called Sexual Molestation, the number of rapes itself has increased but by a small percentage and the final point is in cities like Malmo which has Sweden’s largest immigrant community the number of sexual assaults has fallen in the last couple of years, it’s these social media lies that create problems, they create a racial confirmation bias that is too easily accepted by too many people.
 
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