Trump and the Jan 6 hearings

Jedi boro said:
Aaagh I give up

no he wouldn’t as abortion pro or anti has never been a political issue in the UK for anybody of the main parties as it just does t matter in England. So there isn’t and never was any roe v wade style legislation here in England.

Now Scotland and n Ireland are a different matter there it does poll as it’s largely a sectarian issue.
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I didnt say it was a political issue, I said that if Boris though he could gain extra support by making it a political issue then he would do so in a heartbeat with zero remorse or repercussions from his pwn party and supporters.

You know. like lieing repeatedly in Parliament.
 
Trump has galvanised the religious right in America and given them a platform to spew their hate and racism.

This has now gone so far as he's become some kind of messiah to them, he can do no wrong and anyone who tries to hold him accountable is literally, an enemy.

The Republican party have jumped in with both feet in their support and are now so deep they cannot do anything other than follow everything Trump and his supporters demand.

The future looks very grim.
 
Billy69_uk said:
I didnt say it was a political issue, I said that if Boris though he could gain extra support by making it a political issue then he would do so in a heartbeat with zero remorse or repercussions from his pwn party and supporters.

You know. like lieing repeatedly in Parliament.
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But it’s not an issue in this country

In America though it is.

Btw I’d imagine boris was in favour of it as it helps get rid of his little indiscretions.
 
Chris_Boro said:
Trump has galvanised the religious right in America and given them a platform to spew their hate and racism.

This has now gone so far as he's become some kind of messiah to them, he can do no wrong and anyone who tries to hold him accountable is literally, an enemy.

The Republican party have jumped in with both feet in their support and are now so deep they cannot do anything other than follow everything Trump and his supporters demand.

The future looks very grim.
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Exactly that’s why I say it’s nothing like the UK as it’s religion that is the key factor over there.

GOD GIVEN THIS AND THAT.

That’s the big difference there is no religious Christian right in this country as we see in the us.
 
Jedi boro said:
But it’s not an issue in this country

In America though it is.

Btw I’d imagine boris was in favour of it as it helps get rid of his little indiscretions.
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For those politicians who are seeking to ban abortion in America, a vast proportion of them doesn't believe in it either but is politically expedient to them so they exploit it.

You cannot compare apples with oranges but at the heart of this, what is happening is the far-right eroding democracy to retain power on both sides of the Atlantic, yes it comes in different flavors but they are after the same thing, control. The issues have different masks but are all born from the same ideologies, heck Boris and Trump's whole election campaigns were run by the same guy.
 
JonnyHistory said:
For those politicians who are seeking to ban abortion in America, a vast proportion of them doesn't believe in it either but is politically expedient to them so they exploit it.

You cannot compare apples with oranges but at the heart of this, what is happening is the far-right eroding democracy to retain power on both sides of the Atlantic, yes it comes in different flavors but they are after the same thing, control. The issues have different masks but are all born from the same ideologies, heck Boris and Trump's whole election campaigns were run by the same guy.
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This is very much the crux of the matter, much like a Pulis-ball goal is the same end result as one scored with Wilder-ball.
Trump might or might not face charges, but I think there could well be a breaking of ranks in the GOP after yesterday's testimony as a matter of political survival. The hardcore Trumpists like Taylor Green, Bobert, Navarro etc will stay with him as they are genuinely of the same mind, but those not being endorsed by Trump in the primaries and those not facing primaries might see this as the opportunity to turn their backs on him.
Oddly, had Rowe Vs Wade not been overturned then I think the GOP would have won by both houses in November, but that one Scotus decision and Thomas's thinly veiled threat to attack other rights may be enough to activate the majority vote and give the Democrats a bigger majority in both houses.
Let's be honest here, the GOP represent a minority and minority views and beliefs, but thanks to the broken system and their willingness to rig the system in their favour they have given themselves disproportionate power. The Democrats need to listen to their progressive wing and fight the GOP on their own terms and stop playing it fair.
 
dooderooni said:
This is very much the crux of the matter, much like a Pulis-ball goal is the same end result as one scored with Wilder-ball.
Trump might or might not face charges, but I think there could well be a breaking of ranks in the GOP after yesterday's testimony as a matter of political survival. The hardcore Trumpists like Taylor Green, Bobert, Navarro etc will stay with him as they are genuinely of the same mind, but those not being endorsed by Trump in the primaries and those not facing primaries might see this as the opportunity to turn their backs on him.
Oddly, had Rowe Vs Wade not been overturned then I think the GOP would have won by both houses in November, but that one Scotus decision and Thomas's thinly veiled threat to attack other rights may be enough to activate the majority vote and give the Democrats a bigger majority in both houses.
Let's be honest here, the GOP represent a minority and minority views and beliefs, but thanks to the broken system and their willingness to rig the system in their favour they have given themselves disproportionate power. The Democrats need to listen to their progressive wing and fight the GOP on their own terms and stop playing it fair.
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Could not agree more, Democratic apathy and an unwillingness to fight fire with fire are major contributor factors here. Both sides pandered to Trump in one way or another and both have to accept some responsibility.

I agree to an extent regarding the abandoning of Trump but in many ways, the damage is done. At every level of their court system, they have stacked the courts at every level with ideologically motivated judges who are passing judgements that side with business rights over the individual and show a willingness to remove democratic liberties (like Roe but also Loving and other landmark cases that involve women, gay and privacy rights). The GOP is essentially ruling from a minority position and it will take decades to undo; if it can be undone at all. Whether Trump faces justice or not, the political landscape over there has been altered for a few generations to come sadly.

I have to agree on the upcoming elections this has saved the Dems skin, however, as history shows the likelihood of them doing anything progressive is minimal, look at Roe they have sung carols and are fundraising off the back of it but in real terms are doing very little to fight it. If you want your mind really blown check out Joe Biden's voting record and past comments on abortion rights, people forget he is a devout Catholic himself, his past does not suggest he will even want to fight this and is happy just paying lip service whilst quietly letting it happen.
 
dooderooni said:
Trump might or might not face charges, but I think there could well be a breaking of ranks in the GOP after yesterday's testimony as a matter of political survival.
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Just can't see it tbh unless they have a stand out alternative.
Look at all of his other indescretions and yet still they supported him almost en masse.
I think he remains the GOPs best chance of a return to power.
Tragic but the US populace are stupid enough to vote for him again.
 
futureboy said:
The tape of Trump on the phone to Brad Raffensperger is enough evidence alone, as far as I'm concerned. The fact that nothing has been done about it 18 months later proves that the DoJ has no interest in this entire affair.
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That's not the DoJ's case - it's being actively pursued by the Fulton County District Attorney's office in Georgia.

After gathering sufficient evidence, they empanelled a grand jury in May. Many legal analysts expect charges to be forthcoming, not least because, as the old saying goes, "a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich, if you wanted it to."

Raffensperger already testified.

Georgia Secretary of State Raffensperger testifies before special grand jury in Trump election probe
 
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Liamo said:
That's not the DoJ's case - it's being actively pursued by the Fulton County District Attorney's office in Georgia.

After gathering sufficient evidence, they empanelled a grand jury in May. Many legal analysts expect charges to be forthcoming, not least because, as the old saying goes, "a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich, if you wanted it to."

Raffensperger already testified.

Georgia Secretary of State Raffensperger testifies before special grand jury in Trump election probe
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This gives me hope!
 
zzzzz said:
Just can't see it tbh unless they have a stand out alternative.
Look at all of his other indescretions and yet still they supported him almost en masse.
I think he remains the GOPs best chance of a return to power.
Tragic but the US populace are stupid enough to vote for him again.
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Even if he is indicted, which he should be for events before ( he should be charged as individual one in the Michael Cohen affair) and during his presidency there would be little chance of getting a conviction.

It would be difficult to avoid getting Trump sympathisers/nutters on the jury and even if you could the intimidation and threats the jury would face would be intolerable.

It should still happen though it is the correct thing to do. I wonder if he will refer to it as a “witch hunt”🤔.
 
Jedi boro said:
But it’s not an issue in this country

In America though it is.

Btw I’d imagine boris was in favour of it as it helps get rid of his little indiscretions.
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I think the point he's making is that IF it was an issue over here, or if there was a similarly contentious issue over here that Boris could exploit for his own personal and political ambitions, he would.

Oh wait, he already has.

They're cut from the same cloth. It mortifies me that anyone is dumb enough to think these people can lead for the interests of the people. It's a damming indictment of the direction our and certain countries are going in.

The soft power style cultural colonisation by America across the world and our desire to align with them over the years as their soft empire grew while our physical empire disappeared has americanised our culture and it's horrible to see.
 
Liamo said:
That's not the DoJ's case - it's being actively pursued by the Fulton County District Attorney's office in Georgia.

After gathering sufficient evidence, they empanelled a grand jury in May. Many legal analysts expect charges to be forthcoming, not least because, as the old saying goes, "a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich, if you wanted it to."

Raffensperger already testified.

Georgia Secretary of State Raffensperger testifies before special grand jury in Trump election probe
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Fair play - I had no idea about that. I'm just staggered that it's taking so long to address a crime which has already been proven with tangible evidence.
 
I've thought for a long time that we've moved forward as a Western civilisation and there's no chance that we could ever have a repeat of the 1930s today, however the more I see the likes of Johnson and Trump and the way societies are easily divided I wonder whether things could take a turn for the worse.

I think it would be fascinating as a social experiment to try to recreate something like 1930s Germany in this country to see how easily people are divided and manipulated. I think with the right type of authoritarian leader our country could be absolutely ripe for a far right leader.

Although I think something like this would make for an interesting documentary on Netflix, its the type of situation that could be dangerous when you think where it could end up.
 
The Card Cheat said:
I agree sweeping statements aren't helpful and many Americans I've met are amongst the most emphatic and intelligent people I know, but it's hard to get past the fact that nearly 75 million people voted for an openly rascist, misogynistic bully who boasts about tax evasion and sexually assaulting women and advocates drinking bleach to cure covid.
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Of my US friends only two were openly and vocally Trump. The first he wasn't dim, he was a software developer but had fallen for the cultist personality based politics. The second, had a troubled childhood, raised in a wealthy family, but went down the drug root, messed his head up badly, somehow avoided prison after having a marijuana farm on his property, and illegal guns, bought into every conspiracy going, as long as it was anti-democrat. He was a mentally vulnerable individual, and of course the Trumpers he knew recruited him into full blown Maga. That's how cults work, they prey on people who have weakness in their life and try and make them angry it some implausible boogeyman.

I have another friend who has been involved in Republicanism, working for the republican party, she gladly talks about how her Dad worked with and is friends with Ken Starr back in the Clinton impeachment era. She is Republican to the core........but she stopped talking politics and never revealed if she voted for Trump. I believe she might have abstained from voting, because she didn't like his misogyny more than anything. She also used to babysit and bathe baby Michael Phelps, a much cooler story than my dad is friends with Ken Starr :ROFLMAO:

Pretty much everyone else I was friends with where democrat in recent years. But then I work in an intellectual industry, I suspect it was the white working classes that really got him into power first time and are trying to keep his flame burning bright.

Politics in the US has been turned on it's head really, with people voting the opposite to what would historically work for them. Same here with red wall tories. Not sure it'll be a lasting switch though, as it inevitably fails to yield the promised changes.
 
Trump isn’t a republican though as you says he a cult a populist leader/dictator.

Look at how he turned on republicans his comments about the late sen mcain and liz Cheney.

Things like The Lincoln project that were set up to oppose him in office.

www.nytimes.com

Half of G.O.P. Voters Ready to Leave Trump Behind, Poll Finds (Published 2022)

Far from consolidating his support, the former president appears weakened in his party, especially with younger and college-educated Republicans. Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida is the most popular alternative.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
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As you'll see below, Bannon was recorded, way before the election, telling a group of his dodgy mates exactly what Trump was planning on election night. All the evidence is piling up to a point whereby the DoJ will have to charge him with something otherwise they'll be seen to be negligent.
I think, longer term, that Trump will lose a lot of his floating voter support over this and it'll only be his hardcore, conspiracy nuts that will be able to deny his threat to democracy which is the important thing, not his party allegiance or lack thereof.
 
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