Tony Pulis

[atypical_boro]

Social media is a land of extremes, the far right and the far left, right and wrong black and white. I didn't mind Pulis to start off with, I was happy to grin and bear it fort the sake of promotion. when it didn't happen, it felt like we'd sold our soul to the devil. Defo the worst football i've seen since Strachan.

Karanka got left with his pants down in the prem.. gawd knows what anyone involved with the club was thinking that season.
Short term gains possibly?

But why was he the devil? Because he played centre backs at full back? We’ve had plenty of other managers do the same.

Why is he the devil and not just a manager who wasn’t very good? Again, we’ve had plenty of other managers who’d fit that description. Why the deep routed personal hatred towards him that other managers who weren’t very good and played rubbish football don’t get? It’s not as if he screwed us over like Iain Dowie did at Palace or whatever.

 

[newyddion]

But why was he the devil? Because he played centre backs at full back? We’ve had plenty of other managers do the same.

Why is he the devil and not just a manager who wasn’t very good? Again, we’ve had plenty of other managers who’d fit that description. Why the deep routed personal hatred towards him that other managers who weren’t very good and played rubbish football don’t get? It’s not as if he screwed us over like Iain Dowie did at Palace or whatever.

Why was Rudy Gestede a complete and utter tosser and not just a striker who was unlucky with injuries and often didn't get the rub of the green?

Selling your soul to the devil implies that we give up something we cared about for a perceived gain. Losing £3.2m Aden Flint (who he brought in) doesn't really stack up with the whole financial saviour job he did for us. £2m to loan Jordan Hugill dunt stack up either.. even if he did make us a million with the sale of Bamford to Leeds.

 

[atypical_boro]

Why was Rudy Gestede a complete and utter tosser and not just a striker who was unlucky with injuries and often didn't get the rub of the green?

Selling your soul to the devil implies that we give up something we cared about for a perceived gain. Losing £3.2m Aden Flint (who he brought in) doesn't really stack up with the whole financial saviour job he did for us. £2m to loan Jordan Hugill dunt stack up either.. even if he did make us a million with the sale of Bamford to Leeds.

Well I think there’s a lot about transfer deals that we don’t know, but often the claim is that decisions are made above the manager’s head.

I’ve never personally claimed Gestede was a complete and utter tosser. He was rubbish for us and I was glad to see the back of him (mainly because his wages were stupid) but I never held it against him personally. I never understood why on Earth Karanka signed him (assuming it was him).

 

[newyddion]

Well I think there’s a lot about transfer deals that we don’t know, but often the claim is that decisions are made above the manager’s head.

I’ve never personally claimed Gestede was a complete and utter tosser. He was rubbish for us and I was glad to see the back of him (mainly because his wages were stupid) but I never held it against him personally. I never understood why on Earth Karanka signed him (assuming it was him).

It's either one or the other. Pulis came in and saved the day re buying & selling players (as he claimed) or he didn't.

The point is fans have a greater negative view of players/managers the more their expectations are dashed.
Gestede - capable in the premier league, solid championship goalscorer, £6m high earning player supported through injuries.. who couldn't wait to clear off when we were facing relegation.

Pulis, the premier league experienced manager coming in to steady the ship and guide the team to promotion through pragmatism and a safety first approach.

 

[Coluka]

So far, odd phrases implied as attributable to posters are:-
1. Crimes against football
2. Accusing fans of wanting Boro to lose
3. 85-90% of people who talk about him on social media seem to believe he was some sort of abominable human being whose death shouldn’t be mourned.

I have not looked at every post on this thread, but I am guessing the above 3 comments were made up rather than actually stated by anyone other than the poster suggesting it as if it were true (Feel free to correct me if i am wrong). It is all probably an exaggerated perception to justify an opinion, I presume.

4. “He also fell shorter of what I expected of him with the tools at his disposal. Pulis fell a bit short, Woodgate fell way shorter of my expectations AND played worse football”

However this last comment (4) is just one opinion too, which is fine of course, but some of us, arguably even a majority of us, would say Woodgate did better than what many fans expected of him, even before a ball was even kicked in his name. The reason being our bar was set very low and his fate was correctly predicted by the many, not the few. Fancy giving a 3 yr contract, yet another example of wasting money and, at a time when it was so precious a commodity too.

I will acknowledge Pulis’s results were better, with a better squad. Woodgate, unfortunately for him, was following a verbally stated ‘Golden Thread’ almost certainly set him by his employers, but with one hand tied behind his back. Perhaps it was the employers that set Woodgate up to fail by trying to raise fan expectations at the outset, to cover their own mistakes previously, whilst providing inadequate tools to complete the publicly stated aim of Ajax lite. Woodgate was a paid employee, hugely naive and inexperienced in the role given, anyone thinking any of the things stated at the flawed press conference and on other occasions too by Woodgate, was anything other than a well drilled manager spouting his employers pre-prepared words, might be seen as laughable in hindsight. Mind I thought it was immediately. I suspect Woodgate was at least more concerned about the team than his own neck and wallet.

 

[atypical_boro]

It's either one or the other. Pulis came in and saved the day re buying & selling players (as he claimed) or he didn't.

The point is fans have a greater negative view of players/managers the more their expectations are dashed.
Gestede - capable in the premier league, solid championship goalscorer, £6m high earning player supported through injuries.. who couldn't wait to clear off when we were facing relegation.

Pulis, the premier league experienced manager coming in to steady the ship and guide the team to promotion through pragmatism and a safety first approach.

So what was a bigger damning blow for Pulis? His style of football, or the fact that fans expected promotion? Because we’ve had seasons far worse than that, with worse football, that have been forgotten about almost entirely by most fans.

 

[newyddion]

So what was a bigger damning blow for Pulis? His style of football, or the fact that fans expected promotion? Because we’ve had seasons far worse than that, with worse football, that have been forgotten about almost entirely by most fans.

Yeah, I think fans expected promotion.. or at least a go at it. That was the payoff for the dreadful football. Selling players to balance the books, that was expected that was understandable. But then chucking away millions at the same time as preaching all this doesn't sit well. Worse football? I'm not so sure, football under Strachan was bad.. but so were the players. Not ex Barca/Future Barca players.

 

[atypical_boro]

Yeah, I think fans expected promotion.. or at least a go at it. That was the payoff for the dreadful football. Selling players to balance the books, that was expected that was understandable. But then chucking away millions at the same time as preaching all this doesn't sit well. Worse football? I'm not so sure, football under Strachan was bad.. but so were the players. Not ex Barca/Future Barca players.

People clearly have their opinions. He didn’t grate on me and he didn’t kill anyone. I don’t think I will ever fully understand it. I wasn’t remotely bothered about going back up when we came down, maybe that’s part of it. I did expect to get in the play-offs but that 2016/17 season just reminded me that we simply didn’t have the resources to compete in the Premier League, that was with a manager who until that point I’d thought was very good but was terrified of the PL.

 

[changingman]

A little late to the party but I liked him as a manager. Probably fell a little short in the end but inherited one of the most disorganised teams we'd witnessed at the Riverside and added that defensive strength which was so sorely lacking. Ultimately, football is a results industry and his win % puts him towards the top of the list of Boro managers.

As for innovation, I'm pretty sure Mourinho once stated in an interview how innovative Pulis' style of football was, admittedly a while ago now and he's arguably not evolved in line with other managers in terms of tactics but certainly at Stoke he tried something different and it largely worked.

 

[Marvanelli]

but Marv the reason people defend him is because he was just a mediocre football manager for us, the 85-90% of people who talk about him on social media seem to believe he was some sort of abominable human being whose death shouldn’t be mourned. It’s just childish. But you’re absolutely right, it’s widespread and it’s damning, but basically just reiterates my belief that football fans can sometimes be incredibly childish.

You say because the majority think the same of Pulis, that's 'childish'?...bit ironic calling fans for not liking a previous manager 'childish'....then accusing the same fans of saying they wouldn't mourn his death.

Can you show me where 85-90% of fans have said they wouldn't mourn his death or something that suggests this?

 

[atypical_boro]

You say because the majority think the same of Pulis, that's 'childish'?...bit ironic calling fans for not liking a previous manager 'childish'....then accusing the same fans of saying they wouldn't mourn his death.

Can you show me where 85-90% of fans have said they wouldn't mourn his death or something that suggests this?

No one has said that. I said something like “they speak about him as though they wouldn’t mourn his death”. I never said anyone had actually said that.

I’m just making the point that the hatred for him is immense. I’ve honestly never known a player or manager receive so much hatred. Usually this kind of hatred is reserved for someone who was once loved, this is an anomaly. Not a day goes by without a new thread about him on here.

 

[indeedido]

For some reason Pulis’ gets under the skin of the average football supporter more than most, and I can’t for the life of me understand what it is.

It's because he is a lying crook who sucks the very life out of clubs with his sycophantic words towards his chairman and deflection of any responsibility for the turgid rubbish he serves up on the pitch.
I can't for the life of me understand how you defend him.

 

[McBrid]

West Brom fans feel exactly the same towards Pulis as we do. He does suck the life out clubs. I agree with that comment

 

[atypical_boro]

It's because he is a lying crook who sucks the very life out of clubs with his sycophantic words towards his chairman and deflection of any responsibility for the turgid rubbish he serves up on the pitch.
I can't for the life of me understand how you defend him.

I’m past defending him now, it’s more just curiosity as to how he’s still under the skin of so many. The OP is a very good and very reasonable poster yet even he can’t stand him. The anger towards Pulis hasn't even subsided from the majority of fans in 18 months.

The “sucks life out of clubs” thing is a bit of a modern football cliche in my opinion. People said it about Mourinho at United, even though he’s probably the most successful manager they’ve had since Ferguson. What does it even mean? He plays unattractive football, ok. Some (most) fans don’t like it but it still doesn’t really mean anything. He didn’t “suck the life out of the club” anymore than Woodgate or any other manager we’ve had who hasn’t achieved success. He also didn’t serve up any more “turgid rubbish.”

I can’t remember who said above that “at least Woodgate aspired to play attractive football”. I’m beginning to think that’s the crux of it. Pulis plays a self-aware brand of no-frills football, and is chastised for it (not just by Boro fans). Woodgate himself said that during the Salford friendly he realised he didn’t have the players to play out from the back, he just didn’t admit it any press conferences at the time, and he played a terrible brand of football that yielded terrible results. So maybe that’s it, maybe Pulis should have just paid more attention to his own PR (with reference to your “crook” comment too, but there’s probably only you that calls him that most other posters say it’s just the rubbish football).

 

[McBrid]

I’m past defending him now, it’s more just curiosity as to how he’s still under the skin of so many. The OP is a very good and very reasonable poster yet even he can’t stand him.

The “sucks life out of clubs” thing is a bit of a modern football cliche in my opinion. People said it about Mourinho at United, even though he’s probably the most successful manager they’ve had since Ferguson. What does it even mean? He plays unattractive football, ok. Some (most) fans don’t like it but it still doesn’t really mean anything. He didn’t “suck the life out of the club” anymore than Woodgate or any other manager we’ve had who hasn’t achieved success. He also didn’t serve up any more “turgid rubbish.”

I can’t remember who said above that “at least Woodgate aspired to play attractive football”. I’m beginning to think that’s the crux of it. Pulis plays a self-aware brand of no-frills football, and is chastised for it (not just by Boro fans). Woodgate himself said that during the Salford friendly he realised he didn’t have the players to play out from the back, he just didn’t admit it any press conferences at the time, and he played a terrible brand of football that yielded terrible results. So maybe that’s it, maybe Pulis should have just paid more attention to his own PR (with reference to your “crook” comment too, but there’s probably only you that calls him that most other posters say it’s the rubbish football).

Thanks for the compliments.

 

[atypical_boro]

Thanks for the compliments.

Ha you’re welcome.

 

[go-nads!]

Gibson shat his pants after making an awful decision appointing Monk - he allowed him to blow a war chest on players with no thought in how to knit those purchases into the squad that was already in place.

He gambled on Pulis after promising attacking football after an awful Premier League season.

I didn’t want him at the club but he at least settled the system and we looked decent at times - remember hammering Leeds?

The play off debacle maybe should have been the end of him. I am not positive he is entirely to blame for some of the transfer dealings. The Bamford sale in particular. The reason I say this, is I don’t trust the club over signings and the influence of the chairman and recruitment team. Bamford was sold to pay for Saville, he was the only saleable one of our awful selection of forwards. It was the wrong decision but I kind of understand it.

Gibson must have known what he was getting with Pulis, he was the wrong appointment. We had all had enough of negative football. Karanka frustrated me immensely, don’t forget we just to say scraped promotion. I thought that squad was better than that, if Karanka had just been a little more adventurous we would have walked the league.

No section of the club can claim any credit from the PL season, it was just awful, amateur hour from top to bottom, again I point my finger at Gibson, he completely took his eye off the ball and with two decades of being in charge, he should have had the experience to make better decisions.

Pulis I think gets a lot of unwarranted criticism as a result of built up dissatisfaction with the club as a whole - he’s an easy target.

He’s a manager to consolidate, in a specific set of circumstances, he is not a manager to progress a club.

 

[atypical_boro]

Gibson shat his pants after making an awful decision appointing Monk - he allowed him to blow a war chest on players with no thought in how to knit those purchases into the squad that was already in place.

He gambled on Pulis after promising attacking football after an awful Premier League season.

I didn’t want him at the club but he at least settled the system and we looked decent at times - remember hammering Leeds?

The play off debacle maybe should have been the end of him. I am not positive he is entirely to blame for some of the transfer dealings. The Bamford sale in particular. The reason I say this, is I don’t trust the club over signings and the influence of the chairman and recruitment team. Bamford was sold to pay for Saville, he was the only saleable one of our awful selection of forwards. It was the wrong decision but I kind of understand it.

Gibson must have known what he was getting with Pulis, he was the wrong appointment. We had all had enough of negative football. Karanka frustrated me immensely, don’t forget we just to say scraped promotion. I thought that squad was better than that, if Karanka had just been a little more adventurous we would have walked the league.

No section of the club can claim any credit from the PL season, it was just awful, amateur hour from top to bottom, again I point my finger at Gibson, he completely took his eye off the ball and with two decades of being in charge, he should have had the experience to make better decisions.

Pulis I think gets a lot of unwarranted criticism as a result of built up dissatisfaction with the club as a whole - he’s an easy target.

He’s a manager to consolidate, in a specific set of circumstances, he is not a manager to progress a club.

I think I agree with your final two sentences completely.

 

[indeedido]

I’m past defending him now, it’s more just curiosity as to how he’s still under the skin of so many. The OP is a very good and very reasonable poster yet even he can’t stand him.

The “sucks life out of clubs” thing is a bit of a modern football cliche in my opinion. People said it about Mourinho at United, even though he’s probably the most successful manager they’ve had since Ferguson. What does it even mean? He plays unattractive football, ok. Some (most) fans don’t like it but it still doesn’t really mean anything. He didn’t “suck the life out of the club” anymore than Woodgate or any other manager we’ve had who hasn’t achieved success. He also didn’t serve up any more “turgid rubbish.”

I can’t remember who said above that “at least Woodgate aspired to play attractive football”. I’m beginning to think that’s the crux of it. Pulis plays a self-aware brand of no-frills football, and is chastised for it (not just by Boro fans). Woodgate himself said that during the Salford friendly he realised he didn’t have the players to play out from the back, he just didn’t admit it any press conferences at the time, and he played a terrible brand of football that yielded terrible results. So maybe that’s it, maybe Pulis should have just paid more attention to his own PR (with reference to your “crook” comment too, but there’s probably only you that calls him that most other posters say it’s just the rubbish football).

You are like The Black Knight "Tis but a scratch" in Monty Python.
The football was dire AND the results not good enough DESPITE huge wage bill, squad and £20m to blow.
Mr %age IS a liar; it cost him £6m trying to lie that he wasn't.
Sucking the life out of a club involves leaving it worse than he found it; alienating the vast majority of the supporters; getting thousands who have paid to go to matches to prefer not to go; breaking other supporter's commitment to renew or closely follow their team; killing away support; getting people to think small and not to dream.
pulis is like an abusive partner.

If you still can not for the life of you understand the feeling toward pulis, then check it out if he ever gets back to The Riverside as a manager when there are crowds allowed.

For the record, I would not mourn his death. You mourn the loss of something you love, admire, value or respect.
But I wouldn't celebrate it either.

 

[festa5]

In fairness when he first took over he was a breath of fresh air following Monk. Organised and a clear game plan. Traore firing on all cylinders.

If the play-offs hadn't been such a non event I think he'd probably get a bit more credit for that season.

My feeling though is he doesn't really know how to set teams up to attack and is more unforgiving of attacking players not doing the dirty work than most, probably even more so than Karanka.

As a result he has a tendency to select reliable grafters over anyone with a spark. His approach can be effective and even not that terrible to watch if he has a couple of outstanding attackers. Which he did with Traore and Bamford. And for a spell Braithwaite.

Keep it tight, get the ball forward quickly and let your star individuals do their thing. Problem is, in the championship outstanding individual attackers are few and far between. Without them we looked devoid of ideas.

Towards the end for me personally (and for many others it seems) without those outstanding individuals it was a tedious grind and I just became apathetic towards how we were doing. I remember Sheff Wed at the Riverside on boxing Day. They were below us in the table and I think we went for 4 centre mids with Downing playing off the striker. It was pretty much expected by that point, I wasn't excited at the prospect of the game, certainly not by a line up that suggested we were facing Man City rather than a mid table championship team and definitely not by the ensuing tedious 1-0 defeat.

For me he'd completely sucked any enjoyment out the game and it almost felt like it was by design.

We've had worse managers. We've had managers who have played bad football. But I don't think we've had anyone who seemed so determined to set out to intentionally play such a drab style of football. I think that's the crux of the matter for me.