There is talk on various platforms about civil disobedience..............

You can apply that logic to the Tories that they will announce new proposals


So let’s deal in facts 👍

And my point was if your aim is to bring down the Government to have a change what is it you aim to achieve?
I never claimed to the contrary, I am not the one stating misleading nonfactual information here, Labour have already proposed (along with the windfall tax the Tories co-opted) several suggestions as to how to reduce the impact of the current crisis beyond the 5% VAT cut.

What I would say is the Tories track record is not great and one of the potential leaders has been clear (until her latest U-turn) that support would be limited to tax cuts. This does nothing to help pensioners, vulnerable and disabled people or the unemployed. Everything they have suggested so far does not even scratch the surface so it is right to be pessimistic about any proposals they have planned.

Lastly, the intent of revolution is explained in the word itself. The majority of the population are not happy with the criminality and lack of empathy of this administration. When a government does to little to protect its subjects and a significant percentage of the population face starving or freezing to death then people have to take action, especially when it could be another 18 months before they have a chance to vote them out.
 
The Liberal Democrats first put forward the idea of a windfall tax on the profits of oil and gas companies - which have peaked as the economy restarted after the pandemic - in November, with Labour outlining its own version in January.
Apologies, they co-opted Lib-Dems and Labours policy. Still wasn't their own idea though was it? So I am unsure of the point you are making here to be honest and it does little to disprove any of my last reply to you.

Let me ask you something, what makes you believe any Tory policy to ease the strain of the upcoming crisis will be fit for purpose based on their record in office this last decade?

"let the bodies pile high"
"let covid rip"
"no handouts this winter to help ease the burden"

This is the rhetoric they use, what make you believe they give a toss about any of us? Even the windfall tax they butchered. Raised 15 billion but they gave 10 billion back in tax breaks and now they are giving energy companies a 12 billion subsidy when the £400 payments per household of tax payers money is paid directly to them in the coming months. The Tories have protected the energy industry not people, so what makes you believe this time will be different.

With facts please!
 
Yes it is. Thoreau may have coined the phrase but he didn't invent the concept. Anyway, it is unhelpful to get bogged down with semantics when the understanding of the phrase is long established. Lots of words and phrases change meaning over time (font for typeface) and we generally take the most understood meaning, especially if it is long established.


Britannica: “civil disobedience, also called passive resistance, the refusal to obey the demands or commands of a government or occupying power, without resorting to violence”


Stanford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy: “On the most widely accepted account, civil disobedience is a public, non-violent and conscientious breach of law undertaken with the aim of bringing about a change in laws or government policies (Rawls 1999, 320). On this account, people who engage in civil disobedience operate at the boundary of fidelity to law, have general respect for their regime, and are willing to accept the legal consequences of their actions, as evidence of their fidelity to the rule of law. Civil disobedience, given its place at the boundary of fidelity to law, is said on this view to fall between legal protest, on the one hand, and conscientious refusal, uncivil disobedience, militant protest, organized forcible resistance, and revolutionary action, on the other hand.”


Cambridge Dictionary: the act by a group of people of refusing to obey the laws or pay taxes, as a peaceful way of expressing their disapproval of those laws or taxes and in order to persuade the government to change them.
I stand corrected. I have read that Stanford publication and this passage caught my eye:

Coercion and persuasion: Theorists often complete the dichotomy between violence and non-violence by seeing violence as a means of coercion, non-violence as a means of persuasion, and the two as incompatible. Coercion can be defined as “any interference by an agent, A, in the choices of another agent, B, with the aim of compelling B to behave in a way that they would not otherwise do” (Aitchison 2018a, 668; see also entry on coercion). Persuasion, by contrast, requires initiating a dialogue with an interlocutor and aiming to elicit a change of position or even their moral conversion. Coercive tactics impose costs on opponents. For instance, land occupation by environmental activists is designed to prevent or delay oil pipeline construction. Boycotts are also considered to be coercive tactics to the extent that they impose acute costs on businesses (through lost revenue) and sometimes involve intimidation and the threat of force to ensure maximum compliance with the boycott (Umoja 2013, 135–42). Some theorists of civil disobedience hold that civil disobedients cannot resort to coercion; they can only seek to persuade and appeal to their opponent’s moral conscience, which excludes confrontational and coercive tactics (Lefkowitz 2007, 216; Brownlee 2012, 24).


I draw attention to the bolded section. Does anyone think we can appeal to the moral conscience of the billionaire oligarchs and their puppet politicians who run this country? Violent coercion is the only way to exact lasting change.
 
Yep, imagine next March after a winter of £500 energy bills, likely blackouts, inflation at record highs and most people are being offered a 2% pay rise. Would expect strikes to continue for some time yet
Nobody sensible is going to pay £500 a month for gas and electric when not so long ago their monthly bill was £70-£100.
 
Nobody sensible is going to pay £500 a month for gas and electric when not so long ago their monthly bill was £70-£100.
What do you mean no one sensible will pay it? Do you realise that’s what the price cap is going to be at in a few months
Not paying isn’t exactly sensible as it will cost thousands more in the long term
 
What do you mean no one sensible will pay it? Do you realise that’s what the price cap is going to be at in a few months
Not paying isn’t exactly sensible as it will cost thousands more in the long term
Say for example your currently paying £100 per month. Are you then going to pay the greedy b***ds £500 a month in January and beyond?
Of course your not, otherwise your part of the problem.
 
Say for example your currently paying £100 per month. Are you then going to pay the greedy b***ds £500 a month in January and beyond?
Of course your not, otherwise your part of the problem.
You have no choice, or you lose the service. If you have a contract with a company to provide service that will include a clause that you pay the going rate.

You do not decide what you are willing to pay, this is not bartering.

What ex-footy legs proposed in the "Liz Truss is certifiable insane" thread is very on point, but it would not even pass muster for consideration by this government.

*Edited for wrong thread
 
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Say for example your currently paying £100 per month. Are you then going to pay the greedy b***ds £500 a month in January and beyond?
Of course your not, otherwise your part of the problem.
If that’s what the bill is what else are we expected to do?
Not sure how I can be classed as part of the problem for paying a bill which is due, if I refused to pay it will then leave me ****ed when it’s time to remortgage or need credit for anything, and probably leave me with a CCJ which would significantly limit future job opportunities

We can refuse to pay and drag it out as long as we like, but that money will always be legally due, but it will likely cost thousands more if you initially refuse to pay
 
Johnny History, did you check Labour policy before saying it proposed a windfall tax which I had to point out to you is actually a liberal democrat policy?

Cause history sort of needs people who understand this fundamental basic concept 👍
Did you read my reply? Why are you avoiding my question?
This isn't the gotcha you think this and you are coming across as a troll tbh.
 
You have no choice, or you lose the service. If you have a contract with a company to provide service that will include a clause that you pay the going rate.

You do not decide what you are willing to pay, this is not bartering.

What ex-footy legs proposed in the "what are peoples gas bill rising to" thread is very on point, but it would not even pass muster for consideration by this government.
You have a choice if you’re not in a contract though. Like telling them to disconnect your supply - an option that i suggest many of us should do. I think it could force them into a rethink
 
You have a choice if you’re not in a contract though. Like telling them to disconnect your supply - an option that i suggest many of us should do. I think it could force them into a rethink
Middle of winter, it is cold - you want to disconnect your heating to try and bluff a multinational company?
Good luck with that
 
Middle of winter, it is cold - you want to disconnect your heating to try and bluff a multinational company?
Good luck with that
Depends on whether you’re prepared to rough it a little. People seemed to manage in the past 🙂 My mum an dad never had central heating when they were kids. I guess people are little bit soft now though
 
Depends on whether you’re prepared to rough it a little. People seemed to manage in the past 🙂 My mum an dad never had central heating when they were kids. I guess people are little bit soft now though
To be honest neither did I for the first 4 years when I bought an old stone cottage in Eston.
Nowadays I'm not so sure it would work for us in our 60's, but I know where you are coming from.
 
Where does it stop with energy bills?

If its £1000 a month by the end of next year should we just pay it? What if its £1500 a month in 2 years time? Just pay it?
 
Where does it stop with energy bills?

If its £1000 a month by the end of next year should we just pay it? What if its £1500 a month in 2 years time? Just pay it?

Welcome to capitalism (y)

Don't pay and they will ruin your credit rating, give you CCJs, send the bailiffs round and eventually cut you off. All whilst shareholders line their pockets and the Government sit back an do nothing as not to rile their paymasters.

I would dare say if bills hit £1000 a month there would be riots.
 
Welcome to capitalism (y)

Don't pay and they will ruin your credit rating, give you CCJs, send the bailiffs round and eventually cut you off. All whilst shareholders line their pockets and the Government sit back an do nothing as not to rile their paymasters.

I would dare say if bills hit £1000 a month there would be riots.

I'm wondering at what point the riots will start, for some on here 500 a month might be doable for other people out there 200-300 will be the breaking point.

I already feel like its getting to the point where things can't go up anymore.
 
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