There is talk on various platforms about civil disobedience..............

JM14

Well-known member
So who goes on strike in a general strike? Which sectors?
Could be any sector depending how bad things get. Doubt the unions have enough power to force a general strike but we will still see plenty of disruption, rail strikes continuing, talk of NHS and teacher strikes next. Wouldn’t be shocked to see all public services with the threat of strike action at some stage, probably when the next pay reviews are due
 

Jedi boro

Well-known member
Btw you do realise general strikes are themselves illegal as is calling for one.

The act made it illegal for one union to go on strike to support another. Hence, the definition and practice of a general strike changed in modern times to mean periodic days of mass action coordinated, often, by unions, but not an official or prolonged strike
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Could be any sector depending how bad things get. Doubt the unions have enough power to force a general strike but we will still see plenty of disruption, rail strikes continuing, talk of NHS and teacher strikes next. Wouldn’t be shocked to see all public services with the threat of strike action at some stage, probably when the next pay reviews are due
Yeah. There's going to be a lot of strikes and unhappy workers before this gets any better
 

JM14

Well-known member
Yeah. There's going to be a lot of strikes and unhappy workers before this gets any better
Yep, imagine next March after a winter of £500 energy bills, likely blackouts, inflation at record highs and most people are being offered a 2% pay rise. Would expect strikes to continue for some time yet
 

BlindBoyGrunt

Well-known member
This isn’t accurate. This original coiner of the term (Thoreau) used civil to describe the links between civilian population and civil servants (government) and not as a description of the action (as in civility). He did advocate for subcategories of civil disobedience to distinguish between non-violent and violent actions.

Yes it is. Thoreau may have coined the phrase but he didn't invent the concept. Anyway, it is unhelpful to get bogged down with semantics when the understanding of the phrase is long established. Lots of words and phrases change meaning over time (font for typeface) and we generally take the most understood meaning, especially if it is long established.


Britannica: “civil disobedience, also called passive resistance, the refusal to obey the demands or commands of a government or occupying power, without resorting to violence”


Stanford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy: “On the most widely accepted account, civil disobedience is a public, non-violent and conscientious breach of law undertaken with the aim of bringing about a change in laws or government policies (Rawls 1999, 320). On this account, people who engage in civil disobedience operate at the boundary of fidelity to law, have general respect for their regime, and are willing to accept the legal consequences of their actions, as evidence of their fidelity to the rule of law. Civil disobedience, given its place at the boundary of fidelity to law, is said on this view to fall between legal protest, on the one hand, and conscientious refusal, uncivil disobedience, militant protest, organized forcible resistance, and revolutionary action, on the other hand.”


Cambridge Dictionary: the act by a group of people of refusing to obey the laws or pay taxes, as a peaceful way of expressing their disapproval of those laws or taxes and in order to persuade the government to change them.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Yep, imagine next March after a winter of £500 energy bills, likely blackouts, inflation at record highs and most people are being offered a 2% pay rise. Would expect strikes to continue for some time yet
It's going to be brutal isn't it? Amazes me the amount of people who can't see it yet
 

ThePrisoner

Well-known member
Btw you do realise general strikes are themselves illegal as is calling for one.

The act made it illegal for one union to go on strike to support another. Hence, the definition and practice of a general strike changed in modern times to mean periodic days of mass action coordinated, often, by unions, but not an official or prolonged strike
Nothing to stop unions striking individually albeit at the same time. Well, nothing to stop them yet. I am sure it will soon be illegal.
 

h_m_boro

Well-known member
No- one would ever notice nor care if my sector went on strike, so the ones that strike have to cause the maximum disruption. Pretty much any of the public services.
Next step - seeing as the government have flatly refused to negotiate - is co-ordinated action.
 

Boroboyyo

Well-known member
Threatening civil disobedience, then ousting the government then forcing a general election would just result in the tories getting re-elected again. Like it or not, they have been democratically elected . Doing that would just harbour massive resentment from those who refuse to partake in the civil disobedience

Unless you ban the tories from running , but then it ceases being a democracy anymore if you only allow parties you like to run
 

BlindBoyGrunt

Well-known member
The way this thread has descended is quite pathetic. Several posters obviously baiting Smalltown to get a bite. Deary me.
The attacks on Smalltown on this thread are absolutely f*****g childish and pathetic and those joining the pile-on need to grow up.
Personally I have far more respect for somebody who realises a mistake and changes his mind than i do for a bunch of trolls who think a cheap bite is more important than the subject being discussed. I can only conclude that it's those who attempt to derail the thread who really don't want change.
 

h_m_boro

Well-known member
Aye, but the riots and voting Tory in 2019 are not mutually exclusive. Don't have to be happy with how things have panned out.....I mean I though Starmer was the best choice to lead the Labour party, but I could not have been more wrong 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️
 

JackG

Well-known member
Threatening civil disobedience, then ousting the government then forcing a general election would just result in the tories getting re-elected again. Like it or not, they have been democratically elected . Doing that would just harbour massive resentment from those who refuse to partake in the civil disobedience

Unless you ban the tories from running , but then it ceases being a democracy anymore if you only allow parties you like to run
I'm not so sure. In 1974, against the background of a miners' strike, 3-day week, an oil price crisis and accelerating inflation, Edward Heath called a general election. The Conservatives attempted to focus on one issue - who governs Britain? The electorate answered with 'not you, mate'. We're not quite there yet but I can see plenty of parallels with 74. With growing unrest, a worsening outlook, and a new leader I can see the Tories going for it quite soon.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Threatening civil disobedience, then ousting the government then forcing a general election would just result in the tories getting re-elected again. Like it or not, they have been democratically elected . Doing that would just harbour massive resentment from those who refuse to partake in the civil disobedience

Unless you ban the tories from running , but then it ceases being a democracy anymore if you only allow parties you like to run
Do you think so? Looking at polling results it'll at least be a hung parliament. And it's probably more likely that parties will form s coalition with labour than Tory because of their toxicity
 

Boroboyyo

Well-known member
Do you think so? Looking at polling results it'll at least be a hung parliament. And it's probably more likely that parties will form s coalition with labour than Tory because of their toxicity

Polls are volatile though , forcibly ousting a government I would wager would swing votes in the tories favour
 

h_m_boro

Well-known member
And come any impending election, the RWM will go into overdrive with their smears, Trumpisms and hatchet jobs on Labour, socialism EU etc. This will sway a lot of weak minded electorate.
And will not be pretty.
 

Corco65

Well-known member
I can understand people's frustration and the feeling that all they have left are violent protests. Say it happens and riots occur and shops are looted and damaged, just think with the chaos where will people get their food/medicines and goods, for a while. Yes people might walk away with TVs, some clothes or other things, but there won't be any new deliveries. Companies will stop producing and people will be laid off in all these places.

And guess what when it all settles down, who do you think will pay for the repairs to get things up and running again, I'll give you a clue it won't be the companies or their shareholders.

People can take direct action, think about what you buy, what you need and where you buy it from, customers are in control by collective force (except again monopolies), the last thing any company wants is to loose customers on a vast scale but that's the way to get them to think again, move/use alternatives, they are out there.

Jeremy Corybyn and Labour offered a socialist manifesto to the people, for the many not the few, covering many of the things people are now complaining and worried about, yet people turned their back on it, people were warned about Johnson and the right wing of the Tory Party but they lapped it up, I wonder why, self hurt on so many levels.
 
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JonnyHistory

Well-known member
Absolutely not!

Smalltown is arguing that civil disobedience, general stikes or whatever it is he chooses at any one time to call can bring down a government if 3.5-% if the public strike, protest or whatever

But he voted that very same government in he wants us to collectively remove

And he’s calling others cowards who don’t support him in his crusade to remove the government he elected 3 year ago

And I’m asking what happens then, you vote in Starmer who is suggesting removing the 5% VAT on energy bills that have risen 50% from the start of the year

It’s embarrassing
Starmer is proposing more than that and has said a detailed proposal will be coming soon.

I am not Starmers biggest fan but lets deal in facts here!
 
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