The Turkeys who voted for christmas

[ForssAwakens]

How is it abuse to call someone who is ignoring food shortage ignorant? Its the exact definition of the word

How do you know they are ignoring them? There has be zero indication that they have on this thread.

 

[Lefty]

I grasp that, and we all now know we were lied to.

The issue I have now is people like @Erimus74 and @Randy simply ignoring or making jokes about said hurdles. It depresses me know end that there are still people in this country who still think they have to defend their brexit unicorn even when the food shortages and other damages are actually happening. That's why I said they come across as simpletons on here. They sound like they truly have failed to grasp the basics of the situation. I hope so, actually. If they honestly don't get it then they are just being stupid and you can forgive that up to a point. If they do get it, and chose to defend and deflect and make jokes about it anyway, you have to ask yourself what is actually wrong with them

There are a few things at play and they are all very human responses that on another issue we would be guilty of ourselves. Some Remain voters looked into this in quite a lot of detail, but not many. Most who voted Remain did so largely through instinct of one sort or another, just as most who voted Leave did. That instinct might have been because they were risk averse. Or perhaps they were a little more distrusting of the people advocating Leave. Whatever, unlike in their personal life, people, myself included and you if you're reading this, do not make political decisions mostly based on reason unfortunately.

Remain fought a poor campaign, Leave ran rings around them. We shouldn't get annoyed at people who voted Leave, because the quality of the debate was poor. Instead of facts, evidence and tested arguments, the design and rules of the referendum, the ignorance of the press and the sheer complexities of the issues meant that for the vast majority, all they had to go on was instinct anyway.

Leave played the game better, but the way the game was set up was rigged in their favour and they didn't play fair, they played to win. Winning was more important than the right decision because they were so ideologically driven, so certain of themselves as in the right, as these people are, that winning and the right decision were the same thing to them.

I have nothing but admiration of Leave voters that changed their mind.

For those who still haven't I have less, but there are still some reasonable positions for Leave voters to take.

One is to acknowledge that they didn't really follow the best practice for decision making at the time, but that there may be unexpected benefits start to emerge in the next few years. Necessity being the mother of invention and all that. Some Leave voters did want radical change and although this won't come about by design, but by crisis, it might end up indeed being radical. If this happens, Remainers and Leavers can come together and acknowledge that it might be by sheer luck and it was a $hitshow, but something better came out of it in the end, so we can be thankful for our 'error'. Perhaps electoral reform might be that.

I have no time for Leavers who have the audacity to blame Remainers for the $hitshow. Their monkeys, their circus.

The thing is, when we make a mistake or bad choice, it can be very hard to acknowledge that to ourselves. We tend not to change our minds in a Damoscene event. Rather it is a gradual process where we modify our memories, our reasons, our reasoning and our evaluation of the outcome over time. The more entrenched or certain of something we were, the tougher that process. This is for good reason. Every one of us has our own narrative of the world with ourselves at the very centre. We are a product of our genes, of evolution, first and greatest and far less that of nurture and culture. We have developed instincts and narratives to help guide ourselves through the world, with one goal. To pass those genes on. Our storytelling power and the various heuristics we have developed, they are all with that purpose. To not die until we have mated. These devices and shortcuts that we don't even realise we have going on all the time are incredibly brilliant for surviving as a species, as humanity's success shows, but when it comes to us as an individual addressing a modern political question, they are going to suck because that's not the sorts of problems they are designed to tackle. So, when we make a mistake, this can be mentally difficult for us to cope with. So we resolve this gradually, mostly by lying to ourselves and adjusting our memories bit by bit until we have found a way to be comfortable with it. We are the story telling chimp and we automatically tell ourselves stories about the world that fit in with our personality and world view. When something changes externally, we modify - lie - to ourselves in a way to keep things internally consistent with our personality and world view, because otherwise we experience psychological discomfort - cognitive dissonance.

We hold a belief, that stems from our world view, and now we have information that contradicts that belief. Ideally, we would resolve that conflict rationally and objectively, changing the belief as necessary, depending on the nature of the new information. However, when the belief is strongly and emotionally held, it becomes too difficult to change. If the belief is at the core of our world view, this magnifies the cognitive dissonance. It is emotionally easier to simply dismiss the new information, challenge its source, minimise its implications. Or blame someone or something else.

Ring any bells, any of that?

We all do it, but Brexit is a great example, I think.

We aren't Vulcan or robots, we are human with human failings. We can minimise this by trying to apply critical thinking skills and principles at all times. I think Brexit was the biggest affront to that, which is what annoyed me more than anything.

 

[Randy]

There are a few things at play and they are all very human responses that on another issue we would be guilty of ourselves. Some Remain voters looked into this in quite a lot of detail, but not many. Most who voted Remain did so largely through instinct of one sort or another, just as most who voted Leave did. That instinct might have been because they were risk averse. Or perhaps they were a little more distrusting of the people advocating Leave. Whatever, unlike in their personal life, people, myself included and you if you're reading this, do not make political decisions mostly based on reason unfortunately.

Remain fought a poor campaign, Leave ran rings around them. We shouldn't get annoyed at people who voted Leave, because the quality of the debate was poor. Instead of facts, evidence and tested arguments, the design and rules of the referendum, the ignorance of the press and the sheer complexities of the issues meant that for the vast majority, all they had to go on was instinct anyway.

Leave played the game better, but the way the game was set up was rigged in their favour and they didn't play fair, they played to win. Winning was more important than the right decision because they were so ideologically driven, so certain of themselves as in the right, as these people are, that winning and the right decision were the same thing to them.

I have nothing but admiration of Leave voters that changed their mind.

For those who still haven't I have less, but there are still some reasonable positions for Leave voters to take.

One is to acknowledge that they didn't really follow the best practice for decision making at the time, but that there may be unexpected benefits start to emerge in the next few years. Necessity being the mother of invention and all that. Some Leave voters did want radical change and although this won't come about by design, but by crisis, it might end up indeed being radical. If this happens, Remainers and Leavers can come together and acknowledge that it might be by sheer luck and it was a $hitshow, but something better came out of it in the end, so we can be thankful for our 'error'. Perhaps electoral reform might be that.

I have no time for Leavers who have the audacity to blame Remainers for the $hitshow. Their monkeys, their circus.

The thing is, when we make a mistake or bad choice, it can be very hard to acknowledge that to ourselves. We tend not to change our minds in a Damoscene event. Rather it is a gradual process where we modify our memories, our reasons, our reasoning and our evaluation of the outcome over time. The more entrenched or certain of something we were, the tougher that process. This is for good reason. Every one of us has our own narrative of the world with ourselves at the very centre. We are a product of our genes, of evolution, first and greatest and far less that of nurture and culture. We have developed instincts and narratives to help guide ourselves through the world, with one goal. To pass those genes on. Our storytelling power and the various heuristics we have developed, they are all with that purpose. To not die until we have mated. These devices and shortcuts that we don't even realise we have going on all the time are incredibly brilliant for surviving as a species, as humanity's success shows, but when it comes to us as an individual addressing a modern political question, they are going to suck because that's not the sorts of problems they are designed to tackle. So, when we make a mistake, this can be mentally difficult for us to cope with. So we resolve this gradually, mostly by lying to ourselves and adjusting our memories bit by bit until we have found a way to be comfortable with it. We are the story telling chimp and we automatically tell ourselves stories about the world that fit in with our personality and world view. When something changes externally, we modify - lie - to ourselves in a way to keep things internally consistent with our personality and world view, because otherwise we experience psychological discomfort - cognitive dissonance.

We hold a belief, that stems from our world view, and now we have information that contradicts that belief. Ideally, we would resolve that conflict rationally and objectively, changing the belief as necessary, depending on the nature of the new information. However, when the belief is strongly and emotionally held, it becomes too difficult to change. If the belief is at the core of our world view, this magnifies the cognitive dissonance. It is emotionally easier to simply dismiss the new information, challenge its source, minimise its implications. Or blame someone or something else.

Ring any bells, any of that?

We all do it, but Brexit is a great example, I think.

We aren't Vulcan or robots, we are human with human failings. We can minimise this by trying to apply critical thinking skills and principles at all times. I think Brexit was the biggest affront to that, which is what annoyed me more than anything.

A great post Lefty. As always.

 

[SmallTown]

There are a few things at play and they are all very human responses that on another issue we would be guilty of ourselves. Some Remain voters looked into this in quite a lot of detail, but not many. Most who voted Remain did so largely through instinct of one sort or another, just as most who voted Leave did. That instinct might have been because they were risk averse. Or perhaps they were a little more distrusting of the people advocating Leave. Whatever, unlike in their personal life, people, myself included and you if you're reading this, do not make political decisions mostly based on reason unfortunately.

Remain fought a poor campaign, Leave ran rings around them. We shouldn't get annoyed at people who voted Leave, because the quality of the debate was poor. Instead of facts, evidence and tested arguments, the design and rules of the referendum, the ignorance of the press and the sheer complexities of the issues meant that for the vast majority, all they had to go on was instinct anyway.

Leave played the game better, but the way the game was set up was rigged in their favour and they didn't play fair, they played to win. Winning was more important than the right decision because they were so ideologically driven, so certain of themselves as in the right, as these people are, that winning and the right decision were the same thing to them.

I have nothing but admiration of Leave voters that changed their mind.

For those who still haven't I have less, but there are still some reasonable positions for Leave voters to take.

One is to acknowledge that they didn't really follow the best practice for decision making at the time, but that there may be unexpected benefits start to emerge in the next few years. Necessity being the mother of invention and all that. Some Leave voters did want radical change and although this won't come about by design, but by crisis, it might end up indeed being radical. If this happens, Remainers and Leavers can come together and acknowledge that it might be by sheer luck and it was a $hitshow, but something better came out of it in the end, so we can be thankful for our 'error'. Perhaps electoral reform might be that.

I have no time for Leavers who have the audacity to blame Remainers for the $hitshow. Their monkeys, their circus.

The thing is, when we make a mistake or bad choice, it can be very hard to acknowledge that to ourselves. We tend not to change our minds in a Damoscene event. Rather it is a gradual process where we modify our memories, our reasons, our reasoning and our evaluation of the outcome over time. The more entrenched or certain of something we were, the tougher that process. This is for good reason. Every one of us has our own narrative of the world with ourselves at the very centre. We are a product of our genes, of evolution, first and greatest and far less that of nurture and culture. We have developed instincts and narratives to help guide ourselves through the world, with one goal. To pass those genes on. Our storytelling power and the various heuristics we have developed, they are all with that purpose. To not die until we have mated. These devices and shortcuts that we don't even realise we have going on all the time are incredibly brilliant for surviving as a species, as humanity's success shows, but when it comes to us as an individual addressing a modern political question, they are going to suck because that's not the sorts of problems they are designed to tackle. So, when we make a mistake, this can be mentally difficult for us to cope with. So we resolve this gradually, mostly by lying to ourselves and adjusting our memories bit by bit until we have found a way to be comfortable with it. We are the story telling chimp and we automatically tell ourselves stories about the world that fit in with our personality and world view. When something changes externally, we modify - lie - to ourselves in a way to keep things internally consistent with our personality and world view, because otherwise we experience psychological discomfort - cognitive dissonance.

We hold a belief, that stems from our world view, and now we have information that contradicts that belief. Ideally, we would resolve that conflict rationally and objectively, changing the belief as necessary, depending on the nature of the new information. However, when the belief is strongly and emotionally held, it becomes too difficult to change. If the belief is at the core of our world view, this magnifies the cognitive dissonance. It is emotionally easier to simply dismiss the new information, challenge its source, minimise its implications. Or blame someone or something else.

Ring any bells, any of that?

We all do it, but Brexit is a great example, I think.

We aren't Vulcan or robots, we are human with human failings. We can minimise this by trying to apply critical thinking skills and principles at all times. I think Brexit was the biggest affront to that, which is what annoyed me more than anything.

Fair point. And absolutely I won't blame anyone for voting leave back then. However because it has got so bad, so quickly I have no time at all for those who continue to support it especially those that find it funny