The republicanism thread.

Cardiffdaffs said:
Nobody should mute a debate about the monarchy I agree. Given the anount of people though against the idea of a republic I dont think I want to waste too much of my time debating something that wont occur in our lifetime.

Maybe things will change in my grandchildren's adulthood.
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thats not the point we can debate the role of the monarchy without the single nuclear outcome being a republic. I am more concerned with the land assets and wealth which really belongs to the state not the monarch, which frankly needs redistributing from king Chuck's pocket
 
changingman said:
I was having this very conversation the other day, I think a Venn diagram of those who believe in "a superior being" and monarchists would be interesting.

It definitely plays on the emotional sides of people's minds - when reduced to logical arguments it's difficult to justify.
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And to be fair I suspect a lot it is based on the human need to feel part of something bigger than ourselves. I'm sure anthropologists will have done all sorts of studies on it.

I wonder how many people decided they had to join the queue only once it was clear how popular it was and how many people were joining it. Many have talked about the experience in an almost spiritual way.

If it hadn't got so long, would have had anything like the appeal? It became a pilgrimage and almost some sort of trial people wanted to undertake.
 
Glover_elbow said:
thats not the point we can debate the role of the monarchy without the single nuclear outcome being a republic. I am more concerned with the land assets and wealth which really belongs to the state not the monarch, which frankly needs redistributing from king Chuck's pocket
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I get your beef with the crown assets but it is the point because the thread is entitled the Republicanism thread. I am in favour of a slimmed down monarchy but very much against a republic. I just think we would find it very difficult to agree on what we should replace it with frankly. President Truss or King Charles? I’d go with “chuck” every day of the week.

id rather we concentrate more on reforming the House of Lords if we are worried about cronyism and corruption in power.
 
festa5 said:
And to be fair I suspect a lot it is based on the human need to feel part of something bigger than ourselves. I'm sure anthropologists will have done all sorts of studies on it.

I wonder how many people decided they had to join the queue only once it was clear how popular it was and how many people were joining it. Many have talked about the experience in an almost spiritual way.

If it hadn't got so long, would have had anything like the appeal? It became a pilgrimage and almost some sort of trial people wanted to undertake.
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The Queue was completely unnecessary and was obviously another play by TPTB to enhance the myth of monarchy. A simple ticketing system with a time stamp could have been used. Just show up at the coffin near to your allocated time. But no, there had to be 'a display'.
 
ThePrisoner said:
The Queue was completely unnecessary and was obviously another play by TPTB to enhance the myth of monarchy. A simple ticketing system with a time stamp could have been used. Just show up at the coffin near to your allocated time. But no, there had to be 'a display'.
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Not sure how you could ticket 250.000 people just like that with the inevitable no shows and worse the touting that would have ensued. Block bookings by agencies making money on it etc. Simple queueing had the most equitable way of doing it and rewarded the most committed. Also my partner was absolutely buzzing about the whole experience.
 
festa5 said:
And to be fair I suspect a lot it is based on the human need to feel part of something bigger than ourselves. I'm sure anthropologists will have done all sorts of studies on it.

I wonder how many people decided they had to join the queue only once it was clear how popular it was and how many people were joining it. Many have talked about the experience in an almost spiritual way.

If it hadn't got so long, would have had anything like the appeal? It became a pilgrimage and almost some sort of trial people wanted to undertake.
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100%, same with the various processions. Definitely a vibe from some (not all) of people simply wanting to be there, and be seen to be there. The search for valediction in the social media age.

That said, I made exactly the same point on twitter last week re: people talking at gigs so I think it's part of a wider change, from the collective to the individual.
 
festa5 said:
As far as I can see the only tangible benefit of them is the tourism argument. And that's not clear cut by any stretch.
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As I said earlier in the thread, I do believe that there is some economic benefit to having the monarchy, though I agree it's hard to be exact about it. As the ones advocating change, I see the burden of proof being on the republicans. Research is needed into tourists' decisions to visit the UK rather than other countries.

However, I do see another, admittedly minor benefit. The longer I live, the more I buy in to the idea that they contribute to social cohesion.

I didn't attend any parties for the jubilee; I haven't been down to London to stand in any queues; I've never attended any event attended by a royal, and I wouldn't go out of my way to do so.

However, I am struck by the sense of community, identity and belonging that those events foster in those who attend them. Republicans might argue it's irrational, and that people shouldn't feel like that; however, the hard truth is that people do feel the monarchy brings them together, and who are republicans to tell them how they should feel? I don't think republicanism can bring people together in that way.
 
Frozen Horse said:
As I said earlier in the thread, I do believe that there is some economic benefit to having the monarchy, though I agree it's hard to be exact about it. As the ones advocating change, I see the burden of proof being on the republicans. Research is needed into tourists' decisions to visit the UK rather than other countries.

However, I do see another, admittedly minor benefit. The longer I live, the more I buy in to the idea that they contribute to social cohesion.

I didn't attend any parties for the jubilee; I haven't been down to London to stand in any queues; I've never attended any event attended by a royal, and I wouldn't go out of my way to do so.

However, I am struck by the sense of community, identity and belonging that those events foster in those who attend them. Republicans might argue it's irrational, and that people shouldn't feel like that; however, the hard truth is that people do feel the monarchy brings them together, and who are republicans to tell them how they should feel? I don't think republicanism can bring people together in that way.
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Fair point. Not sure what I think on that to be fair. I agree these events have brought people together. I'm just not sure that something similar, other than a Royal event, couldn't have achieved the same.

Like Brexit day or something.........😏
 
exiledinboro said:
Well it looks like the Labour conference will debate a change to the election system next week and however the party leadership has no obligation to put any vote result in favour of PR in place in it's manifesto
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It's the only hope for the country but 99% certain to not pass.
 
We had a referendum on PR btw it failed massively.

PR is far from a panacea either.

First we need to establish which version we mean by PR as they differ massively.

PR also allows extremist parties and views to thrive.
 
Jedi boro said:
We had a referendum on PR btw it failed massively.

PR is far from a panacea either.

First we need to establish which version we mean by PR as they differ massively.

PR also allows extremist parties and views to thrive.
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We did not have a referendum on PR. It was a referendum on a specific and useless form of PR.
 
Ok small town you liked the post criticising me even though it was a referendum on PR

SO answer the question which format do you prefer and why ???
 
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