The Owen v Rooney (at 17) debate

Andy_W said:
I don't think Own or Rooney are near where R9 was at Barcelona, as a striker, when he was 20, for that year before his injuries (Spanish football was on TV then). He had the pace of Owen but could also do so much more, with much more control and skill. That's be best I've ever regularly seen anyone play the game for a season, including Messi even. That's not to put Messi down mind of course, or Cristiano Ronaldo, they were both in a different class altogether and for so long.

A lot of the pro's say R9 he was even better the next year at Inter, when he got 25 goals in Seria A in 32 games the next season. We didn't get to see that in the UK as it wasn't on TV. The defences then in Italy were insane, and the sides were so negative. Obviously the 1998 world cup was that year too, and he was ludicrous there as well.

Even the 2002 world cup, after his first injury he was still on a different level to Owen and Rooney.
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R9 definitely on a different level to Owen, but Messi had seasons that eclipsed R9's best, both in terms of raw output and what we seen each player do on the pitch.
 
I still think, to this day, R9 is the greatest striker I've ever seen.

His acceleration, power, speed, added to the fact he was able to do all this whilst keeping the ball under control and then scoring, was sensational.

Obviously, it's unfair to compare to Messi as he is undoubtedly the greatest footballer ever. No one even comes close to Messi in that regard.

As for Owen v Rooney....I think Owen is right with his comments (maybe for the first time ever?). I still feel Rooney is underrated in this country. He should go down as one of England's all time greatest players. He's the record goal scorer for Man Utd FFS. That in itself is one hell of an achievement, when you think of the players that have played for that club over the years.
 
Marvanelli said:
I still think, to this day, R9 is the greatest striker I've ever seen.

His acceleration, power, speed, added to the fact he was able to do all this whilst keeping the ball under control and then scoring, was sensational.

Obviously, it's unfair to compare to Messi as he is undoubtedly the greatest footballer ever. No one even comes close to Messi in that regard.

As for Owen v Rooney....I think Owen is right with his comments (maybe for the first time ever?). I still feel Rooney is underrated in this country. He should go down as one of England's all time greatest players. He's the record goal scorer for Man Utd FFS. That in itself is one hell of an achievement, when you think of the players that have played for that club over the years.
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Is he not regarded as one of Englands greatest players now? He would be in that category for me.
 
Marvanelli said:
His acceleration, power, speed, added to the fact he was able to do all this whilst keeping the ball under control and then scoring, was sensational.
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In his pomp yes, but he didn't maintain all of that throughout his career. It was all fits and spurts with him. He is an international football legend though and will be regarded as one of Brazil's best ever.
 
Funnily enough, when United played us, I was never that worried when I saw Ronaldo's name on the teamsheet. Whereas Giggs always seemed to do us. I mention those two because they managed to keep their careers going at the top level much longer, in Ronaldo's case by utter dedication, but in both their cases by excelling at new skills during their careers - Ronaldo became an excellent header of the ball, unusual for a flair player, and Giggs improved his end product and was able to play more as an attacking midfielder rather than an out and out winger in his last few years.
 
In the first two years of his career, Owen was phenomenal. His pace was electrifying and his finishing was top class. Very few players in recent history have been able to instantly terrorise senior defences like he did. Lamal definitely did but many others have had to grow into it, even if it only took a year or so to reach the elite level consistently. Messi & Rooney probably fall into that category. Rooney was very good from day one but perhaps didn't reach that stratosphere as quick. It could be argued it is as much about timing too. Rooney was younger than Owen when he made his debut so maybe he wasn't quite as 'ready' to explode. Also, Owen had a world cup about 13 months into his career. While Rooney had to wait almost 2 years for his major tournament recognition.
 
Juno10 said:
In the first two years of his career, Owen was phenomenal. His pace was electrifying and his finishing was top class. Very few players in recent history have been able to instantly terrorise senior defences like he did. Lamal definitely did but many others have had to grow into it, even if it only took a year or so to reach the elite level consistently. Messi & Rooney probably fall into that category. Rooney was very good from day one but perhaps didn't reach that stratosphere as quick. It could be argued it is as much about timing too. Rooney was younger than Owen when he made his debut so maybe he wasn't quite as 'ready' to explode. Also, Owen had a world cup about 13 months into his career. While Rooney had to wait almost 2 years for his major tournament recognition.
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I think maybe Rooneys longevity makes people forget how good he was as a teenager.

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I think Rooney was the finished article the moment he signed for Man U and scored that hat trick if not earlier. I dont think he got better he stayed at that level for about 15 years.

Owen was raw pace, acceleration and a good finisher. In the modern game he would play on the wing because he wouldn't be able to lead a line upfront on his own.
 
I hadnt realised the ballon dor was only open to european players till 1995, not even player in europe like Maradonna in 86, e.g. Pele could never have won it.

tbh I think the fact Owen won it when it was a truly Global selection a bit more impressive.
 
Owen and Rooney were both absolutely frightening as teenagers, absolutely world class at 17-18 and streets ahead of most 25-30 year olds.

Owen would have been the best English striker of all time if he'd stayed fit and broken all goalscoring records. As a goalscorer he was better than Rooney.

Rooney was more of a second striker and was never gonna score Owens goals but he had more of an all round game than Owen but they were different players.

I would say Owen at 18 looked as good as any 18 year old striker I've seen and Rooney at 18 looked as good as any 18 year old I've ever seen.

Owen certainly didn't live up to his potential and even though Rooney had the far better career I don't think he ever reached his potential either.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Owen and Rooney were both absolutely frightening as teenagers, absolutely world class at 17-18 and streets ahead of most 25-30 year olds.

Owen would have been the best English striker of all time if he'd stayed fit and broken all goalscoring records. As a goalscorer he was better than Rooney.

Rooney was more of a second striker and was never gonna score Owens goals but he had more of an all round game than Owen but they were different players.

I would say Owen at 18 looked as good as any 18 year old striker I've seen and Rooney at 18 looked as good as any 18 year old I've ever seen.

Owen certainly didn't live up to his potential and even though Rooney had the far better career I don't think he ever reached his potential either.
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Rooney definitely reached his potential, ask anyone who regularly attended United games, he was absolutely brilliant.
 
Owen was electric — his pace and finishing were insane for his age, though he probably benefited from the openness of the game back then.

Rooney, on the other hand, was a beast. Technically superior and able to adapt his game throughout his career to suit different roles.

Both were fantastic to watch. It’s just a shame Owen’s career was short lived, which means he often gets a bit forgotten.
 
Saying Rooney didnt reach his potential isnt a criticism. He became world class but I think he had the potential to reach an even higher level than he did.

He was knocking on the door of Ronaldo and Messi levels for a season but then they kicked on and he didnt. But when you see how he took over games in 2004 for England and looked the best player on the pitch when the likes of Zidane were playing he looked like he could have become the best player in the world.

In hindsight expecting him to become as good as Messi and Ronaldo was unrealistic but he had the potential to be even better than he was. Looking at how he performed for England in big tournaments he never got to his 2004 level.
 
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