The national attitude towards England

WilliamMunny said:
I don't disagree with the sentiment that you need as many options as possible, but I bet there won't be a single squad at the World Cup that does not have at least a couple of it's first choice 26 man squad unavailable. France are already without Kante and Pogba for example, with the likes of Varane and Kounde also doubtful.

I gues my point is we are hardly in the midst of an injury crisis and I think it is little but over the top when someone suggests it feels like half our squad are injured. We'll be without 2 or 3 players as things stand, but may lose another 1 or 2 in the next fortnight as could all teams.

Also I don't see why Saka may not be sharp. He's been fit and playing all season, but had to go off at the weekend after being kicked. He's already back in training so he's absolutely fine.
Click to expand...
I agree that most teams will have players unfit.

I would argue though that this England squad hasn't got a lot of depth to it. Other than having about 16 RBs to choose from and many creative wide players, there is no depth in any other area without a significant drop.

Kane injured would leave us with 4 significantly inferior strikers to choose from. Abraham?
CM Rice is an 8 not a CDM, and Ward-Prowse cannot move around the pitch enough to be comparable with Philips
CBs? we're thin on the ground before any injuries
LB? Shaw is hot-and-cold
GK, we miss Pickfords distribution when he isn't there

It's a thin squad to choose from
 
BoroMart said:
He was superb last time in competition. He does the dirty work that allows the more forward thinking players to do what they can do. Every successful team needs a Philips, but some fans think Pep doesn't know what he's doing signing a player like that
Click to expand...
I am not doubting his form last year - it was clearly known he would be playing no part in the world cup from months ago but I also disagree that our talent pool is "thin" By replacing Phillips with Bellingham from that team at the Euros we can play with more positive intent leaving Rice to the disrupter role. That said Sterling is worryingly not showing any form and we do place too much reliance on Kane up front.
 
Zoophonic said:
I am not doubting his form last year - it was clearly known he would be playing no part in the world cup from months ago but I also disagree that our talent pool is "thin" By replacing Phillips with Bellingham from that team at the Euros we can play with more positive intent leaving Rice to the disrupter role. That said Sterling is worryingly not showing any form and we do place too much reliance on Kane up front.
Click to expand...
I'd rather have Bellingham as back up than Ward-Prowse though. If Bellingham gets an injury or gets over-used and exhaustion sets in we well have the statuesque midfield of Rice and Ward-Prowse on the field. That would be a disaster.

Sterling doesn't deserve his place in the team, I'd play Saka if fit
 
It would probably be for the best if Southgate quit after this World Cup, all managers have a shelf life and he's starting to exceed his. Leave after this tournament whatever happens and he leaves with a legacy to match Robson and Venables, carry on he could end up being sacked.
 
BoroMart said:
No, it's become victim to the culture wars. Southgate is an intellectual, he's articulate, and he has empathy. There are those in government and the media who want to tear down those attitudes ad replace with anger, fear of experts, and removal of multiculturalism and any other deflection they can from the great grift of modern conservatism.

Southgate and this england team stand as the moral opposite to what GBeebies, Suella Braverman, Richard Tice, Nigel Farage and many other media figures want this country to be. So they demonise them in the press. Unfortunately a large number of england fans are exactly the kind of people that fall into that category of euro-hating, doo-gooder despising, anti-woke, lock the borders types, and they're loud in their support of it and therefore hatred of Southgate.
Click to expand...

You are one of the best posters on this board but that is arguably the worst post I've ever read on this forum.
 
Otto42 said:
It would probably be for the best if Southgate quit after this World Cup, all managers have a shelf life and he's starting to exceed his. Leave after this tournament whatever happens and he leaves with a legacy to match Robson and Venables, carry on he could end up being sacked.
Click to expand...
Surely he has supposed Robson and Venebles a semi and a final is better than a semi and quarter, or just a semi.

He will likely walk away, and hopefully with his head held high
 
Otto42 said:
It would probably be for the best if Southgate quit after this World Cup, all managers have a shelf life and he's starting to exceed his. Leave after this tournament whatever happens and he leaves with a legacy to match Robson and Venables, carry on he could end up being sacked.
Click to expand...
I thought he had already signalled he was leaving after this World Cup - unless we do really well?

“ I know ultimately I will be judged on what happens at the World Cup. Contracts are irrelevant in football because managers can have three, four, five-year contracts and you accept that if results are not good enough it is time to go your separate ways."
 
Uwefuchs said:
You are one of the best posters on this board but that is arguably the worst post I've ever read on this forum.
Click to expand...
err thanks, and err ok :ROFLMAO:

The British press do have form for building up and knocking down, and they hate outspoken leftist people. I stand by that his record as England manager is one of the best, and that there has been a campaign against him partly due to his political views.

Southgate's support of BLM, the protection of certain players of colour, his vocal support of the LGBT community and all played out to the political backdrop of a growing right wing in british politics, media and society. They have all played a part in a coordinated attack campaign by the media. The same people that spread hatred of southgate in the media are the same ones who hate EU, immigrants, woke-ism, anti-vax etc. And these people are very loud and well funded.
 
TeaCider said:
We don't know Saka is absolutely fine.
Training doesn't necessarily mean a player is fit, and managers frequently use kidology when discussing injuries.
Click to expand...
Seems like you are wearing a tin hat there TeaCider. Who is Arteta using this kidology against and to what end ahead of a game against the mighty Bodo Glimt?

"Yes. Bukayo just missed one or two [training sessions] and he was fine today [Wednesday].


"We're using our brains and our common sense, but obviously he had a kick. He was uncomfortable with it, we made the decision to get him off and now he's feeling fine."
 
Duffman said:
I think we all know Southgate’s biggest concern is his fierce loyalty to his players irrespective of form. It is pretty obvious Maguire and Sterling will start despite both having pretty indifferent seasons to date. We have some exceptional talent and you must wonder what we could achieve with a manager of Pep, Klopp or even Eddie Hose’s skill set. Southgate loyalty will be his downfall and sadly England’s
Click to expand...
I'm really not sure about Sterling.
 
WilliamMunny said:
Seems like you are wearing a tin hat there TeaCider. Who is Arteta using this kidology against and to what end ahead of a game against the mighty Bodo Glimt?

"Yes. Bukayo just missed one or two [training sessions] and he was fine today [Wednesday].


"We're using our brains and our common sense, but obviously he had a kick. He was uncomfortable with it, we made the decision to get him off and now he's feeling fine."
Click to expand...

Managers in the league.

Nothing tinfoil about it, you see it all the time.
We're often told Boro players are fine and should be available for the next match when that turns out to be completely untrue.

Maybe he is actually fine, but I'll only fully believe that when he's back in the starting 11.
 
BoroMart said:
I agree that most teams will have players unfit.

I would argue though that this England squad hasn't got a lot of depth to it. Other than having about 16 RBs to choose from and many creative wide players, there is no depth in any other area without a significant drop.

Kane injured would leave us with 4 significantly inferior strikers to choose from. Abraham?
CM Rice is an 8 not a CDM, and Ward-Prowse cannot move around the pitch enough to be comparable with Philips
CBs? we're thin on the ground before any injuries
LB? Shaw is hot-and-cold
GK, we miss Pickfords distribution when he isn't there

It's a thin squad to choose from
Click to expand...
Everyone is a step down from Kane, just as everyone is a step down from Mbappe, Neymar, Messi, etc. But England have options like Wilson (who I would take) and Toney, plus a returning Calvert Lewin, who I'd also be tempted to take if he doesn't break in the next 10 days.

We'll have to disagree on Rice's position, but he definitely was the deeper lying player in partnership with Phillips last summer. Anyway, I'd personally play 4-2-3-1 with Rice and Bellingham in the 2, but that's just my opinion.

I don't think we are thin on the ground with CB's as much as they're all of a similar standard. Stones aside, I'd suggest Coady, Tomori, Guehi are all as good as Maguire. And although he's currently playing right back for Arsenal, Ben White is a quality CB.

Agree that Shaw is hot and cold, but he's hot right now and hopefully can stay fit, otherwise we'll probably see Trippier at LB and personally I think he is our best RB right now. Or Southgate could go all Graham Potter and play Sterling left wing back!

Agree about Pickford, although I think Ramsdale is very good back up.

Ultimately we don't have a perfect squad of players, but then again I don't think anybody else does either.
 
WilliamMunny said:
Everyone is a step down from Kane, just as everyone is a step down from Mbappe, Neymar, Messi, etc. But England have options like Wilson (who I would take) and Toney, plus a returning Calvert Lewin, who I'd also be tempted to take if he doesn't break in the next 10 days.
Click to expand...
OK, let me rephrase, two steps down. If France lose Mbappe, they've still got Benzema (37 goals), Griezman (42) and Giroud (49) who are proven international goalscorers. We drop to Abraham (3 goals), Toney (0), Watkins (2), Calvert-Lewin (4). We have much less strength in depth.

WilliamMunny said:
I don't think we are thin on the ground with CB's as much as they're all of a similar standard. Stones aside, I'd suggest Coady, Tomori, Guehi are all as good as Maguire.
Click to expand...
Yes the quality doesn't drop massively, but the international experience does, and when you are limited quality you rely on experience.
 
BoroMart said:
err thanks, and err ok :ROFLMAO:

The British press do have form for building up and knocking down, and they hate outspoken leftist people. I stand by that his record as England manager is one of the best, and that there has been a campaign against him partly due to his political views.

Southgate's support of BLM, the protection of certain players of colour, his vocal support of the LGBT community and all played out to the political backdrop of a growing right wing in british politics, media and society. They have all played a part in a coordinated attack campaign by the media. The same people that spread hatred of southgate in the media are the same ones who hate EU, immigrants, woke-ism, anti-vax etc. And these people are very loud and well funded.
Click to expand...

So the lack of optimism about England's chances at the world cup is down to some far right smear campaign?

I think you are massively overthinking things, I've spoken to loads of football fans recently who not particularly excited and optimistic about the world cup and its usually for similar reasons.

The competition is at an awful time of year, people care far more about the club game, England's results have been really poor, we are very negative and dull to watch.

I'm not a far right nutter who is brainwashed by the media (i couldn't be further away from it), and most of the people I speak to are of a similar political persuasion.

Southgates tournament record is unquestionably good but he's been open about being defensive and cautious in his approach. Thats acceptable when you're winning but when the football isn't great to watch and you're not winning you're going to get criticised.

The England job has always been one of the toughest in football, the media scrutiny over England has always been there and pretty much every manager has been under the cosh at times. Maybe he deserves more faith from the country but I think pressure is just the nature of the job rather than it being a political smear campaign against him.
 
BoroMart said:
Surely he has supposed Robson and Venebles a semi and a final is better than a semi and quarter, or just a semi.

He will likely walk away, and hopefully with his head held high
Click to expand...
It is interesting how Venables is regarded as some kind of all-time great for England. As England manager he won 2 competitive matches in 90 minutes. TWO!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top