The end?
- Thread starter borolad259
- Start date
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
I think you are completely wrong.
Putin was prepared to invade another country, smash it to bits and displace 10 million innocent people.
He is toying with NATO.
He is a complete maniac, he doesn’t care about the lives of people and certainly not his own soldiers.
Why would he draw the line at nukes?
We live in very dangerous times, let’s hope Biden can keep a lid on things.
TeaCider
Well-known member
TeessideCleveland
Well-known member
Yatskivka in Donetsk liberated today
Acklam_Lad
Well-known member
I am amazed they are even asking people…
TeaCider
Well-known member
They've got to at least pretend for appearances same, they're not a full blown dictatorship despite everything.
Plenty of Russian people have been convinced in to supporting this farcical war, they're putting on a semblance of a show to convince them and any countries on the fence.
BoroMart
Well-known member
We don't have a presidency so it's irrelevant. If Corbyn was in power, he would be tested by the Tory opposition in the HoC about his stance on launching as a retaliation. If he said "I would never ever launch" or gave a lily livered approach under the circumstances of the current world, he would be subject to a vote of no confidence and removed in 48 hours. Someone in labour would then be put forward in the interim to state the opposite of what Corbyn said. That's the reality. Corbyn would know this and likely state, "of course I would launch in retaliation".
BoroMart
Well-known member
that's pretty much it, promise them you'll get an undefined thing done, then double down on both getting it done and not defining what 'it' is. Fools fall for that kind of thing.
Because he’s not a complete maniac and he understands that launching even a small nuke could lead to, at best, China and other allies completely shunning Russia or, at worst, the complete destruction of the country he’s trying to keep at the top table (plus almost everywhere else).
He’s cold, ruthless, calculating, dishonest and surrounded by sycophantic and often dangerous advisers, but he’s no loose cannon or unpredictable maniac.
Yes, I agree and it’s worked before. The truth is no one bar his inner circle know what he’s really like, but it suits his propaganda to be seen as an unpredictable strongman.
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
Nah, I respect you and Boroboyyo’s alternative views and I do understand them but I think to oversee what has gone on in the Ukraine shows he is a mass murdering complete nutter.
Biden has been outstanding by refusing to let NATO be sucked (so far) into all out war because that is what Putin is itching for.
There is no strategic thinking or grand plan he just wants a fight with the west and he’s not bothered how many civilians get killed in the process or where it ends.
He‘s very very dangerous.
I have to disagree, respectfully of course.
He is a mass murderer and willing to risk Russian and other lives to achieve his goals. But that’s the point, he has goals which are more than just anarchy and death.
It’s true that he stokes unrest in countries he wants to dominate, such as Ukraine, Baltics, Caucuses etc, and countries he sees as rivals such the US (election interference) and the UK (Salisbury, etc) as part of a wider hybrid war against the west. He told us what he believes in his Munich speech in 2007 - he believes in a return to a form of imperialism where major countries control smaller countries.
How does this impact today? - Putin absolutely sees Belarus and Ukraine as countries that Russia should dominate, the same goes for the Stans and Caucuses, hence troops in Central Asia, threats against Kazakhstan and territorial annexations in Georgia. If a military operation and subsequent political overhaul had been successful against Ukraine, I have no doubt he would soon have started ramping up pressure in the Baltic states. This is more dangerous as it’s poking NATO and the EU, but by testing their resolve he would discover whether he could move there. This is what he wants - absolute dominion over what he sees as the Russian spheres of influence, whilst using hybrid warfare to keep rivals and future conquests divided and unstable.
Not the actions of an unhinged madman, but a very cold and calculating (and yes, murdering) dangerous individual with defined goals and aims. He doesn’t want a direct conflict with NATO, especially as he’s seen his own military weaknesses against NATO weapons and tactics, if it stays kinetic he loses, if it goes nuclear everyone loses.
But your final point is very true - he is very dangerous.
An astute assessment. In an airport so not posting much but got a pretty thorough re-assessment through this morning. It's pretty bleak in a lot of respects but Putin has really ***ed off Modi and Xi. That's his Eastward looking diplomacy kicked in the nuts. India has come out and basically said that they are looking more to the USA as a peaceful partner going forward (this is a significant sea change).
There's a fair bit going off in the Stans. Will add more this evening when I'm home.
Long and short, NATO and Euro forces are fully prepared for retaliation should tactical nukes be used. Putin knows this. Yesterday saw the highest number of Russian lives lost in a day since the start of the conflict. Putin doesn't care about that, but there will be a growing number of Babushkas that do.
An increasingly bleak Konstantine.
Other news in brief. Ships carrying the lend/lease cargo are on their way with a substantial airforce guard (leaving Copenhagen). In Tatarstan, Buryata and Dagestan there is trouble. In Tatarstan the Duma has tried to block mobilisation but the governor is trying to enforce it. The kazaks have already flown. I think there will be more and china will be happy to extend its influence in the East.
I'm not sure what kind of cognitive dissonace is at play here with Putin, but there seems to be no real logic behind mobilisation, ******* off your allies and effectively degrading your own military for the future.
In a way, I'm glad, at least, that your average Joe in Moscow no longer feels so far removed from things that they can cheer on the Zs whilst mall shopping for western fashions.
So, if Russia uses tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine, the response will probably be non-nuclear but will be militarily devastating for Russia (Black Sea Fleet, Baltic Fleet ... and a massive assault on their operation in Ukraine, way above what has been seen before). This is, apparently, not a secret. They know.
Travelling all day. Knacked now.
.
Other news in brief. Ships carrying the lend/lease cargo are on their way with a substantial airforce guard (leaving Copenhagen). In Tatarstan, Buryata and Dagestan there is trouble. In Tatarstan the Duma has tried to block mobilisation but the governor is trying to enforce it. The kazaks have already flown. I think there will be more and china will be happy to extend its influence in the East.
I'm not sure what kind of cognitive dissonace is at play here with Putin, but there seems to be no real logic behind mobilisation, ******* off your allies and effectively degrading your own military for the future.
In a way, I'm glad, at least, that your average Joe in Moscow no longer feels so far removed from things that they can cheer on the Zs whilst mall shopping for western fashions.
So, if Russia uses tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine, the response will probably be non-nuclear but will be militarily devastating for Russia (Black Sea Fleet, Baltic Fleet ... and a massive assault on their operation in Ukraine, way above what has been seen before). This is, apparently, not a secret. They know.
Travelling all day. Knacked now.
.
This so far crazy war has just ramped up the crazy level a few notches.
One General Mikhail Mizintsev is now running the Russian side of it. I believe he was in charge of the massacre at Mariupol. Basically a headcase. Knows only brutality and more brutality.
Orders are to gun down any Russian who tries to flee or surrender.
Example, yesterday, raw recruits, untrained and straight from the mobilisation were sent through the Russian defensive mine fields. Any that thought twice were shot from behind. Apparently, and this is what I'm told, the Ukrainians realised what was happening and had to take out the firing squad before trying to rescue the hapless middle aged fatties.
"The 204th regiment was rapidly whittled down from 600 men to 18 men alive in the latest counteroffensive in Luhansk. Before that half of them died in Izium, they then got 300 Meat Targets to fill up the numbers, and then they where sent straight against the Ukrainians without any heavy equipment.
It is really turning out that the recruits are not trained, they are just sent to pile up into a wall of dead bodies to slow down the Ukrainians.
This is not war, this is just mindless slaughter, this is Mizintsev. The last true Russian slaughter general.
Inside Russia people have started torching themselves instead of going, one shot the head Kommissar at the inscription office, and a true dingbat attacked a school and killed 15 children. The last one did it to show his support of the war.
30 percent of the Kommissars are refusing to do the conscripting, and 25 percent of the Governors have refused the mobilisation, or fled their districts.
Russia is now limiting more channels, among other things they just stopped VKontakte.
Konstantin have gone offline. Hopefully he is okay.
Most other Russian Vloggers have either fled now, or been pressganged into either the army or into sending Propaganda, Niki Proshin as the leading example.
And the Molotov cocktails have started to fly, mostly into army installations like recruitment offices and other things, but there is a lot of them flying. I think soon the will start to fly against police.
Dagestan is now in low level civil war."
And more depressing news from Oresund.
"More planes arrived today, B1s, F22s, F35s, A10s, and a couple of B2s and B52s thundered past.
The B2s have a very peculiar sound. I think I can soon walk on the navy ships all the way to Kaliningrad without getting wet feet.
The five largest cities are now under constant iron-domes with NASAMS and Patriots, feels oddly comforting.
Today the NATO troops on the borders to Ukraine, Russia and Belarus reached 300 000. Together with the ships and air power amassed that is roughly what is needed to attack. Add to that another 150 000 Finns and Swedes (thanks to Erdögan we are still not NATO, but neither we nor NATO seems to bother with that distinction now).
I think we are very near war now.
NATO is heavily hinting at going nuclear now if Russia is using nukes in Ukraine, the target is supposedly Belarus.
It is now all up to the Russian population, remove Putin, or hell opens up".
Got a hell of a lot more through. Just reading and digesting it all.
One General Mikhail Mizintsev is now running the Russian side of it. I believe he was in charge of the massacre at Mariupol. Basically a headcase. Knows only brutality and more brutality.
Orders are to gun down any Russian who tries to flee or surrender.
Example, yesterday, raw recruits, untrained and straight from the mobilisation were sent through the Russian defensive mine fields. Any that thought twice were shot from behind. Apparently, and this is what I'm told, the Ukrainians realised what was happening and had to take out the firing squad before trying to rescue the hapless middle aged fatties.
"The 204th regiment was rapidly whittled down from 600 men to 18 men alive in the latest counteroffensive in Luhansk. Before that half of them died in Izium, they then got 300 Meat Targets to fill up the numbers, and then they where sent straight against the Ukrainians without any heavy equipment.
It is really turning out that the recruits are not trained, they are just sent to pile up into a wall of dead bodies to slow down the Ukrainians.
This is not war, this is just mindless slaughter, this is Mizintsev. The last true Russian slaughter general.
Inside Russia people have started torching themselves instead of going, one shot the head Kommissar at the inscription office, and a true dingbat attacked a school and killed 15 children. The last one did it to show his support of the war.
30 percent of the Kommissars are refusing to do the conscripting, and 25 percent of the Governors have refused the mobilisation, or fled their districts.
Russia is now limiting more channels, among other things they just stopped VKontakte.
Konstantin have gone offline. Hopefully he is okay.
Most other Russian Vloggers have either fled now, or been pressganged into either the army or into sending Propaganda, Niki Proshin as the leading example.
And the Molotov cocktails have started to fly, mostly into army installations like recruitment offices and other things, but there is a lot of them flying. I think soon the will start to fly against police.
Dagestan is now in low level civil war."
And more depressing news from Oresund.
"More planes arrived today, B1s, F22s, F35s, A10s, and a couple of B2s and B52s thundered past.
The B2s have a very peculiar sound. I think I can soon walk on the navy ships all the way to Kaliningrad without getting wet feet.
The five largest cities are now under constant iron-domes with NASAMS and Patriots, feels oddly comforting.
Today the NATO troops on the borders to Ukraine, Russia and Belarus reached 300 000. Together with the ships and air power amassed that is roughly what is needed to attack. Add to that another 150 000 Finns and Swedes (thanks to Erdögan we are still not NATO, but neither we nor NATO seems to bother with that distinction now).
I think we are very near war now.
NATO is heavily hinting at going nuclear now if Russia is using nukes in Ukraine, the target is supposedly Belarus.
It is now all up to the Russian population, remove Putin, or hell opens up".
Got a hell of a lot more through. Just reading and digesting it all.