The Carrick out crew

Cardiffdaffs said:
It wouldn't matter so much letting the odd goal in if we score a few - which we have done in the last few games. But we have shipped 17 goals in the league this season compared to Sheff U 7 Burnley 8 and Leeds 9
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Difference being they've all got parachute money, they should be hammering the league as they have 3x the revenue
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
Your 'data' has so many flaws that you can never use this to 'debunk' my opinion of the season thus far under Carrick.

Your xG doesn't take into account the defence and our frailties...like I said a few weeks back - we miss 2 leaders in Lenihan and Smith - both not necessarily as good as clarke and Rav VB and Ayling (at right back vs Smith) but their leadership and control of the 'group' paid dividends as they helped drive us onto the playoffs ; yes, because of Chuba & Archer and Ramsey but equally because when we played teams who played the low block we had a defensive solidity that got us draws away instead of defeats and helped us win instead of drawing....

Your xG can't determine the value of strong leaders we are missing on the field.....on paper, we have a cracking squad (Team) but those 2 players in particular are missed as much as a goalscorer. They were solid defensively and they were leaders of men.

The Norwich game was a perfect example. We capitulated after missing a Penalty - not helped by Carricks awful subs timing by making changes and removing our only potent threat in Doak (because he was 'tired') We lacked leadership in those moments after Norwich got a second....
The way I see it - because you can't measure that (I know you love to measure anything and everything - but you can't measure spirit) you tend to discount as not important.....


What i'm trying to explain is ; Our issues are a combinations of things - missing chances, lacking defensively at times (when we can't score against the low block - we go and concede through lack of leadership in many cases) poor timing of subs by carrick.
I just think Carrick has served his apprenticeship - time to step up - get your largely correct on personnel and timing and where are your leaders to get us out of this tough division ?
(if Lenihan and Smith ain't coming back I would be actively looking for a leadership style player to come in in January somewhere across the back line. We need something for the tough days....
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Instead of pointing out what stats miss, you could concentrate on what they do reveal.

I have never claimed stats tell the whole story, but they give an objective view on what is happening on the pitch, rather than the, wholly, subjective view you seem to favour.

Dismissing stats in the way you seem to means you are missing a big part of the picture, and you are always going to be called out on that where stats don't support your view. Fo example, we can't score against a low block is just not true. That we can struggle at times against a low block is true, but all teams do to one extent or another.

Had we scored in-line with our xG we wouldn't even be having this conversation, thats not something Carrick can do much about. Strikers miss chances.

I am not really interested in having a conversation about leadership. No metrics, doesn't really interest me, it's a pointless conversation. It can be interesting, but it will never go anywhere.
 
Laughing said:
Instead of pointing out what stats miss, you could concentrate on what they do reveal.

I have never claimed stats tell the whole story, but they give an objective view on what is happening on the pitch, rather than the, wholly, subjective view you seem to favour.

Dismissing stats in the way you seem to means you are missing a big part of the picture, and you are always going to be called out on that where stats don't support your view. Fo example, we can't score against a low block is just not true. That we can struggle at times against a low block is true, but all teams do to one extent or another.

Had we scored in-line with our xG we wouldn't even be having this conversation, thats not something Carrick can do much about. Strikers miss chances.

I am not really interested in having a conversation about leadership. No metrics, doesn't really interest me, it's a pointless conversation. It can be interesting, but it will never go anywhere.
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Fair points in there on stats - I agree....
The Preston game - we scored against their low block horrible tactics - but I believe our lack of leadership meant we gifted them an equaliser and then they shut up shop and we didn't have a chuba to unlock the key. 2 point lost against rubbish in my view - lack of strong leaders on the field to stay solid.

But no surprise you don't want to discuss Leadership - because it can't be measured ! :ROFLMAO: I work with a few people who just have to measure something or they feel frustrated.....but some things in life can't be measured - it's why it is so mysterious (not that you'd agree that life is mysterious - you probably live it via a spreadsheet ! (joke) ;)
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
Thats true but.... Sunderland 11 Swansea 10
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Hard to believe but we were doing pretty well early in the season. Conceded just 5 goals in our first 8 Championship games, 9 goals in our first 11. Ironically, as we have finally solved scoring from open play, we have also opened the floodgates at the other end, conceding 8 goals in our last 4 games. Then again our last 4 games have seen us gain 7 points (W2, D1, L1) which is solid top 3-4 form.

It seems that Carrick and co are tweaking what we do. They started the season focusing on solidity. They're gradually "taken the handbrake" off though Doak has been a huge part of that. It could be that we will end up with the right balance.
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
But no surprise you don't want to discuss Leadership - because it can't be measured ! :ROFLMAO: I work with a few people who just have to measure something or they feel frustrated.....but some things in life can't be measured - it's why it is so mysterious (not that you'd agree that life is mysterious - you probably live it via a spreadsheet ! (joke) ;)
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Not what I said in any way shape or form.

Talking about leadership is like discussing god. It's pointless. It will go round in circles without any way to resolve the differences.

For example, I disagree there is a lack of leadership. In fact I think the club have a crystal clear footballing philosophy that the players stick to. You might not like that philosophy, but that's not the point. The football philosophy requires leadership to develop and implement. Carrick gives the message in training, and whether fans like it or not, it is adhered to through the game. That requires leadership.

You clearly don't think this and the discussion is pointless to have because we don't agree and there is no measurable evidence to support either my point of view or yours.

That's why it's pointless. I don't need to measure everything. I just need to be able to apply metrics before I bother to have the discussion.
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
But no surprise you don't want to discuss Leadership - because it can't be measured
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If it can't be measured, how can you know we lack it?

You can point to results, and say they should be better, but that just shows that we're missing something, not that that something is leadership.
 
Laughing said:
Not what I said in any way shape or form.

Talking about leadership is like discussing god. It's pointless. It will go round in circles without any way to resolve the differences.

For example, I disagree there is a lack of leadership. In fact I think the club have a crystal clear footballing philosophy that the players stick to. You might not like that philosophy, but that's not the point. The football philosophy requires leadership to develop and implement. Carrick gives the message in training, and whether fans like it or not, it is adhered to through the game. That requires leadership.

You clearly don't think this and the discussion is pointless to have because we don't agree and there is no measurable evidence to support either my point of view or yours.

That's why it's pointless. I don't need to measure everything. I just need to be able to apply metrics before I bother to have the discussion.
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Metrics is leaning towards measurement though 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️ come on....

I agree with your comments on Carrick and his leadership of the group and the philosophy in terms of the football we play - 100%....what if though...more is required in terms of leadership (in crucial moments during games - that needs a strong voice - a commanding voice) and Carrick has a bit of a blind spot to this ?
 
Frozen Horse said:
If it can't be measured, how can you know we lack it?

You can point to results, and say they should be better, but that just shows that we're missing something, not that that something is leadership.
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Agreed to an extent - I just feel that the preston game is a perfect example of where we scored against the low block and needed strong minds to keep it simple and tight and we gifted them a goal....we lacked nous/leadership on the field...
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
Metrics is leaning towards measurement though 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️ come on....

I agree with your comments on Carrick and his leadership of the group and the philosophy in terms of the football we play - 100%....what if though...more is required in terms of leadership (in crucial moments during games - that needs a strong voice - a commanding voice) and Carrick has a bit of a blind spot to this ?
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metrics isn't leaning towards measurement, it is measurement.
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
Thats true but.... Sunderland 11 Swansea 10
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Swansea have got their balance all wrong as a team, too defensive, they've scored 11 goals all season. Sunderland have done well, I feel that number is about to change though, they've got three very tough games coming up now, but they've bucked the trend so far
 
Frozen Horse said:
If it can't be measured, how can you know we lack it?

You can point to results, and say they should be better, but that just shows that we're missing something, not that that something is leadership.
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There's a saying in my job "If you can't measure it, you can't manage it".

There's another "A broken clock is right twice a day", that philosophy is employed by the anti-carrickers. If they complain we are not strong enough defensively, it will be right on occasion, but wrong more often than not.
 
I don’t think there’s a manager in the world that could get this squad (with the injuries we’ve had) in the top 3. We are in a group of teams like West Brom, Norwich, Sunderland, Watford who’ve got some great players and some who don’t fit the system and some who aren’t really top champo players. We’re where I would expect us to be with the tools available
 
BoroMart said:
I don’t think there’s a manager in the world that could get this squad (with the injuries we’ve had) in the top 3. We are in a group of teams like West Brom, Norwich, Sunderland, Watford who’ve got some great players and some who don’t fit the system and some who aren’t really top champo players. We’re where I would expect us to be with the tools available
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With the greatest respect that's hyperbolic nonsense Mart. We are less than the sum of our parts.
 
Humpty said:
With the greatest respect that's hyperbolic nonsense Mart. We are less than the sum of our parts.
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With all due respect that’s daft.

By any measure we don’t have a squad to compete with Leeds, Burnley or Sheff Utd but have had a win a draw and a defeat so far against them.

When you take into account the players that have been fit and available then we don’t have a better squad than West Brom, maybe Watford and Sunderland. Barlaser, Borges, Dijksteel, Dieng, Howson, Engel, Clarke wouldn’t get in any of those teams.

We’ve had smith, Lenihan, fry out most experienced defenders unavailable too. No wonder we have a soft underbelly.
 
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BoroMart said:
With all due respect that’s daft.

By any measure we don’t have a squad to compete with Leeds, Burnley or Sheff Utd but have had a win a draw and a defeat so far against them.

When you take into account the players that have been fit and available then we don’t have a better squad than West Brom, maybe Watford and Sunderland. Barlaser, Borges, Dijksteel, Dieng, Howson, Engel, Clarke wouldn’t get in any of those teams.

We’ve had smith, Lenihan, fry out most experienced defenders unavailable too. No wonder we have a soft underbelly.
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I'll give you two very measurable bases for comparison...

www.bbc.co.uk

Championship Top Scorers - BBC Sport

Championship top scorers. Showing assists, time on pitch and the shots on and off target.
www.bbc.co.uk
www.bbc.co.uk

Championship Top Scorers - BBC Sport

Championship top scorers. Showing assists, time on pitch and the shots on and off target.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Carrick has 3 Goalkeepers.
3 Left Backs.
3 Right Backs
5 Centre Backs
4 CM's
2 CF's
8 to play in the 3 behind his CF.
Plus McCabe, McCormick and the rest of the U21's

He can't register all his players in the official squad. He has as many out on loan as he has in on loan.

If 10 are injured, he still has 18 to choose from without going near the U21 lads.

His squad size is not the issue.
There is enough quality to be top 6.
It's what Carrick does with it that will count.
 
indeedido said:
Carrick has 3 Goalkeepers.
3 Left Backs.
3 Right Backs
5 Centre Backs
4 CM's
2 CF's
8 to play in the 3 behind his CF.
Plus McCabe, McCormick and the rest of the U21's

He can't register all his players in the official squad. He has as many out on loan as he has in on loan.

If 10 are injured, he still has 18 to choose from without going near the U21 lads.

His squad size is not the issue.
There is enough quality to be top 6.
It's what Carrick does with it that will count.
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Yeah but most of them wouldn’t get into the West Brom or Watford team apparently.
 
BoroMart said:
I don’t think there’s a manager in the world that could get this squad (with the injuries we’ve had) in the top 3. We are in a group of teams like West Brom, Norwich, Sunderland, Watford who’ve got some great players and some who don’t fit the system and some who aren’t really top champo players. We’re where I would expect us to be with the tools available
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Everybody on here reckons Boro's squad is better than Sunderland's squad, but they are 6 points ahead.

Maybe Carrick doesn't have players to rival the top three teams but he should be doing better than Sunderland.
 
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