Team "Boris"

Ironops said:
Wheres the evidence?
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That's the message me and many others got on the doorstep, take a look at social media in the run up to the hartlepool by-election, just about every anti Labour comment was because of labour's brexit stance.
 
jam69 said:
That's the message me and many others got on the doorstep, take a look at social media in the run up to the hartlepool by-election, just about every anti Labour comment was because of labour's brexit stance.
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Thats what people on the left of the labour party would like everyone to believe, and quoting social media and anecdotal stuff you heard on the doorstep isnt as valid as properly commissioned research.

Im sorry the facts dont fit your narrative
 
Ironops said:
Thats what people on the left of the labour party would like everyone to believe, and quoting social media and anecdotal stuff you heard on the doorstep isnt as valid as properly commissioned research.

Im sorry the facts dont fit your narrative
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Oh there's no doubt corbyn cost votes , I just think brexit was a bigger factor, hence the reason labour did worse in the last elections.
By doorstep I mean from those out canvassing knocking on thousands of doors.
Iam sure in certain parts of the country corbyn was a big factor but in the North time and time again it was labour's stance on brexit.
Some people used corbyn as a smokescreen telling us they couldn't vote Labour with him in charge, but they are not voting Labour without him there.
I work for ipsos mori and I know how surveys work, there's no substitute for face to face talking.
Without doubt in red wall seats brexit was and still is the biggest problem for Labour
 
jam69 said:
Corbyn lost votes, and gained some, especially with the younger voters, time and time on the doorstep you heard people say they couldn't vote Labour because of their stance on brexit, that's why Labour did well in 17 but badly in 19 when the public rightly or wrongly perceived Labour to be blocking brexit.
Labour should have let the tories deal with the mess of brexit , it was after all their mess, a vote to keep the tory party together.
Too many own goals cost corbyn, which was a shame as lots of his polices were good and would have helped lead to a fairer society.
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I think you are spot on. The constant ‘defeats’ of the Tories in the commons 2017 to 2019 were eventually seen as Labour trying to block Brexit and the policy at the 2019 election was seen to be trying to reverse it by the back door.
 
ThirdLeg said:
It seems the bar for what constitutes evidence is considerably lower when supporting your own statements than, say, Randys wuhan lab chat ;)
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Did he not use the line "Get Breixt done"? Were votes his votes not increased from May?

I know we live in a post truth era especially when discussing poltics. People just scream "fake news" and carry on arguing. but those are very easily verifiable statements of fact.
 
SmallTown said:
Did he not use the line "Get Breixt done"? Were votes his votes not increased from May?

I know we live in a post truth era especially when discussing poltics. People just scream "fake news" and carry on arguing. but those are very easily verifiable statements of fact.
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It appears I confused you with boro mart, forgive me. But you’re both arguing the same point I guess so I’ll leave it up.

My point being, yes, those are two facts. Similarly, that we have yet to find the animal covid host is a fact. And the US is seriously investigating the lab break theory, this is also a fact.

Now obviously jumping from those facts to “without a doubt covid came from a lab”, or whatever he said that you rightly pointed out was an absurd leap, is what you are doing now in saying Boris said “Get brexit done”, so that’s all there is to it.

I just don’t think either of you are holding yourself to the standards you set for those with opposing views.
 
ThirdLeg said:
It appears I confused you with boro mart, forgive me. But you’re both arguing the same point I guess so I’ll leave it up.

My point being, yes, those are two facts. Similarly, that we have yet to find the animal covid host is a fact. And the US is seriously investigating the lab break theory, this is also a fact.

Now obviously jumping from those facts to “without a doubt covid came from a lab”, or whatever he said that you rightly pointed out was an absurd leap, is what you are doing now in saying Boris said “Get brexit done”, so that’s all there is to it.

I just don’t think either of you are holding yourself to the standards you set for those with opposing views.
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Wait. Let’s hold up. You’re saying the tories didn’t use the phrase “get Brexit done” just to be clear, that is in fact what you’re saying?
 
SmallTown said:
Wait. Let’s hold up. You’re saying the tories didn’t use the phrase “get Brexit done” just to be clear, that is in fact what you’re saying?
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No. I said exactly the opposite. I don’t know how you have got that from my post. I said yes they are two facts. I agreed with you. Perhaps something to do with your default mode being ARGUE AND DESTROY.
They did say that. My sole point concerns the jump from that slogan, mart’s evidence, to the claims regarding the election results. They are no more credible than supporting the lab break theory based on the facts we currently have, in my opinion.
 
ThirdLeg said:
No. I said exactly the opposite. I don’t know how you have got that from my post. I said yes they are two facts. I agreed with you. Perhaps something to do with your default mode being ARGUE AND DESTROY.
They did say that. My sole point concerns the jump from that slogan, mart’s evidence, to the claims regarding the election results. They are no more credible than supporting the lab break theory based on the facts we currently have, in my opinion.
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The final sentence of your third paragraph. It sounds exactly what you were suggesting. As you’re trying to argue that facts aren’t facts. I know we live in a fake news post truth world but that’s just ridiculous
 
Haven’t got a clue what you’re on about, I’m afraid.

Pinning the election result on Brexit is no less of a stretch than randys wuhan lab leak thread, when the evidence presented is that the tories used the slogan Get Brexit done. What you accept as evidence is apparently inconsistent.

And “facts” schhhhmacts, you know. Many people dislike Corbyn. That’s a fact, too. What’s it mean in isolation? Bot all. Randy presented “facts” too - then made a hell of a leap to something not factual based on them, as is the case here. I’m going to need more than boris chanting “Get Brexit Done” to accept they lost seats because of Brexit “end of”, or whatever he said. I dont think it’s fair you demand a Phd thesis as evidence for something that challenges your views but “get Brexit done” is sufficient “evidence” when it suits.
 
You only have to look at the terminology used in this thread by certain posters: "post truth" seems to figure highly as does "fake news". Its a fairly obvious to make an association between the sort of people that use one and/or the other and the other, more notable person that does. Fatuous, vacuous individuals whose views are best ignored, or at least dismissed upon hearing them
 
Keelo said:
Its Hancock.....Corbyn.......Cummings........Gove...etc etc
But why is it in the British psyche now ,to call the bigfest cnut of all of em by his first name?
Please stop it. It drives me FCUKING BARMY
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To quote John Bercow you keep calling him bo#is he’s not a cuddly puppy you know.
 
Ironops said:
Thats what people on the left of the labour party would like everyone to believe, and quoting social media and anecdotal stuff you heard on the doorstep isnt as valid as properly commissioned research.

Im sorry the facts dont fit your narrative
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Actually, Johnson gave a speech within Downing Street immediately after winning the election, thanking Cummings for his work on the 'Get Brexit Done' slogan and said that's what won it for them.
 
ThirdLeg said:
Haven’t got a clue what you’re on about, I’m afraid.

Pinning the election result on Brexit is no less of a stretch than randys wuhan lab leak thread, when the evidence presented is that the tories used the slogan Get Brexit done. What you accept as evidence is apparently inconsistent.

And “facts” schhhhmacts, you know. Many people dislike Corbyn. That’s a fact, too. What’s it mean in isolation? Bot all. Randy presented “facts” too - then made a hell of a leap to something not factual based on them, as is the case here. I’m going to need more than boris chanting “Get Brexit Done” to accept they lost seats because of Brexit “end of”, or whatever he said. I dont think it’s fair you demand a Phd thesis as evidence for something that challenges your views but “get Brexit done” is sufficient “evidence” when it suits.
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I'm not sure if you're trolling or not. But I presume you live in the UK? What do YOU think the key issues in the last election were then? What do YOU think the key Tory message was? This is the thing that is blowing my mind. We all loved through the last election. Yet you're trying to suggest we should prove events there the same as we need proof of the origins of covid. Are you really saying that? I mean. Think about it for a minute. You're trying to compare proving an event we all lived through to proving a complex event not many of us understand, on the other side of the world. That really isn't right and if you can't see the differences than there's no hope for you
 
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