Sycamore Gap Trial Begins

One of 15 billion trees chopped down each year - some people alone cut down thousands and you never hear about them going to court. Makes you think.
 
I heard a rumour that the accused had land that they wanted to open up to campers. The NT who had an overarching governance on the land refused the request, and the accused were close to losing their livelihood. They cut down the tree in revenge.
Could be b’lox though.
 
1finny said:
Just wondering who these far more dangerous people who have committed crimes and walking free are?
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They probably end up in different prisons, which cost more to run per head.

InflatableDinosaur said:
The prisons were so full recently we had to release a load of prisoners well before the end of their sentence.

If found guilty 5-10 years seems madness. A long community service requirement with a suspended prison sentence seems much more appropriate imo.
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I don't mind people being released early, if they have exceptional behaviour and have done a load of stuff to make themselves better, by learning/ taking courses, and have a job to go to. There needs to be an avenue to integrate again, as well as an avenue back to the prison, or scaling up the impact it has on the criminal.

Cardiffdaffs said:
Agree. Massive fine and I mean massive should ruin their lives.
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Yeah, I get that, and it would punish them, but probably would end up in them resorting to other crime, and they would end up doing even more damage than they've already done, which would hurt others even more. Even if they got tagged for 10 years they might still commit more petty crimes, which they probably wouldn't go down for.

Like this crime with the tree, it's not really going to impact someone even on a medium level, compared to a lot of crimes, but it will impact millions on a very small level, the end result might be the same thing as something bad to one person? How do you quantify that? It must be quantifiable in some way?

They either need to make space for people like this, create more spaces or do something like longer potential sentences, but with more scope for reductions. Plus other punishments like large fines and tags, plus multipliers for subsequent crimes.

They also need different levels of prisons, put those who can't behave in prison, and repeat offenders in cheap to run literal shitholes, but put those who want to rehabilitate in better places? We shouldn't be spending 50-100k per year on the worst of society.
 
I like the point that a poster made regarding the fact that this crime effects lots of people in a small way - as oppose to effecting 1 person in a huge way.
If person 'A' attacks person 'B' they need to do their time and serve their punishment in relation to the effect on that person.
(as well as their perceived danger to the wider public).
I would not be effected by the attack on person 'B' at all. Cutting this tree down effects me in a small way. I've visted it a couple of times and intended to take my kids there one day.
Im disgusted by the entitlement of the people that cut it down. Thinking they can do something like that and joke about it. They deserve prison time. But comparing any sentence length to other 'more serious' crimes doesnt really work.
You will always be able to find examples of more perceived 'lenient' sentences for serious crimes when compared with longer sentences for 'petty' crimes.
The simple solution is to stay within the law in the first place.
 
Sammysmiths said:
I heard a rumour that the accused had land that they wanted to open up to campers. The NT who had an overarching governance on the land refused the request, and the accused were close to losing their livelihood. They cut down the tree in revenge.
Could be b’lox though.
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They claim their business to be property maintenece and groundworks though. So it could stop a future opportunity, but not ruin their existing livelihoods.
 
Sammysmiths said:
I heard a rumour that the accused had land that they wanted to open up to campers. The NT who had an overarching governance on the land refused the request, and the accused were close to losing their livelihood. They cut down the tree in revenge.
Could be b’lox though.
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wilkos_perm said:
They claim their business to be property maintenece and groundworks though. So it could stop a future opportunity, but not ruin their existing livelihoods.
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Yeah, there needs to be some way where crimes which don't end up in prison time (due to overcrowding) get various other restrictions put on them, relative to the life they live. Lack of prison space isn't a reason to not punish people, just change the punishment type.

i.e a small fine to a millionaire won't do much at all, but a large one would, or something like taking his land off him or preventing them from having any other purchases or building work etc.

I can kind of get punishing his company too, but if he employs a lot of people then it's not really the employees fault, so they shouldn't suffer hardship. The work his company were doing won't vanish though, maybe take his work off him and dish it out to others, subject to taking on employees etc. Or put him on low wages or high tax for years. All of this would be difficult mind, but do it a few times and it should end up as a deterrent.

I would be asking for a copy of his diary for a few years, and checking his account, I would be my house he does loads of cash jobs, all the wrong uns do.
 
The problem we have with a lot of crime at the minute is there is a massive lack of deterrent.

Our lass works in a shop at Teesside Park, and pretty much the rule is if anything is stolen which is worth less than £200, then it's practically guaranteed that nothing will happen. I don't even think they're allowed to be approached by staff, and security have little power to do anything. So each day there's a wave of shoplifters basically running a mock, and they're all well known etc, probably the same all over.

The £200 thing has been denied by cops, but if they don't police it then it's reality, the legislation about that (classed as low priority shoplifting) has been in place for a decade though. I think Labour are trying to reverse this, but if the police don't police it then nowt will change.
 
Andy_W said:
The problem we have with a lot of crime at the minute is there is a massive lack of deterrent.

Our lass works in a shop at Teesside Park, and pretty much the rule is if anything is stolen which is worth less than £200, then it's practically guaranteed that nothing will happen. I don't even think they're allowed to be approached by staff, and security have little power to do anything. So each day there's a wave of shoplifters basically running a mock, and they're all well known etc, probably the same all over.

The £200 thing has been denied by cops, but if they don't police it then it's reality, the legislation about that (classed as low priority shoplifting) has been in place for a decade though. I think Labour are trying to reverse this, but if the police don't police it then nowt will change.
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Problem is resources no doubt. The police get hundreds of call outs per week many of which are drugs and violent crime. A shoplifter is understandably low priority, however it can have a big impact on business
 
I was early for a dental appointment this week, so I took a walk through Albert Park. While there, I noticed a small group of young men in high-vis jackets working under the supervision of another man. They were clearing weeds near the children’s play area, and it struck me as a really positive scene.

It made me think about the value of reparation, how meaningful it can be for both the offender and the wider community. Seeing those young men contributing to the upkeep of a public space reminded me that, rather than letting people simply languish in prison, we should be making far more use of reparation-based schemes.

There are so many potential benefits - offenders get the chance to take responsibility, learn new skills, and reconnect with society in a constructive way, while communities and victims see visible efforts to make amends. It’s a win win that we could and should be using much more often.
 
wilkos_perm said:
Problem is resources no doubt. The police get hundreds of call outs per week many of which are drugs and violent crime. A shoplifter is understandably low priority, however it can have a big impact on business
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Yeah, I get it, but you would think the shops would be happy to pay more if the problem was sorted maybe? Or maybe what they do pay in rates goes specifically on things which effect them the most?

Possibly some sort of security levy for town centres and retail parks, where the money goes solely on protecting the shops and staff?

Or just give the security guards a lot more power for specific areas, subject to certified training of course.

Loads of shops at TP have their own security I think, collectively they spend a fortune I bet. But why not put it into a single pot which has more powers then literally just follow the shop lifters from shop to shop, they're already being tracked by security anyway. Pretty sure there's TP security, as well as individual shop security, but neither has much power and I bet the integration is poor.

Should tag all the shoplifters and ban em from shops altogether, make em order online only, or have it where their tag sets off shop alarms or alerts local security.

We give too many rights to criminals, especially repeat petty criminals. Petty crime is the first step on the ladder to major crime.
 
Norman_Conquest said:
I was early for a dental appointment this week, so I took a walk through Albert Park. While there, I noticed a small group of young men in high-vis jackets working under the supervision of another man. They were clearing weeds near the children’s play area, and it struck me as a really positive scene.

It made me think about the value of reparation, how meaningful it can be for both the offender and the wider community. Seeing those young men contributing to the upkeep of a public space reminded me that, rather than letting people simply languish in prison, we should be making far more use of reparation-based schemes.

There are so many potential benefits - offenders get the chance to take responsibility, learn new skills, and reconnect with society in a constructive way, while communities and victims see visible efforts to make amends. It’s a win win that we could and should be using much more often.
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They do that in Fairy Dell. Not seen them for a while but it does happen.
 
They should build a clever statue or monument in its place, a picturesque piece of artwork which would stand out and strive in the valley it’s located.

This would bring the tourists back
 
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