blinkbonny
Member
I suspect they are each going to blame the other. Can't see any other possible line of defence.
Sycamore Gap Trial Begins
- Thread starter sparkins
- Start date
Hicktonpen10
Well-known member
Is that the old cut throat defence?
1finny
Well-known member
Their not guilty pleas does seem daft.
Wonder if it is tied up in legal speak…..
The charge refers to criminally damaging a tree.
‘Criminally damaging a tree means intentionally or recklessly destroying or damaging a tree without lawful excuse, and the tree belongs to someone else’
Just wonder if the ‘tree belongs to someone else’ is the potential get out?
Wonder if it is tied up in legal speak…..
The charge refers to criminally damaging a tree.
‘Criminally damaging a tree means intentionally or recklessly destroying or damaging a tree without lawful excuse, and the tree belongs to someone else’
Just wonder if the ‘tree belongs to someone else’ is the potential get out?
El Guapo
Well-known member
It belongs to National Trust
They can hardly claim they own it
RoberttheBruce
Active member
People have been getting long sentences for heritage crime in recent times. Like for instance nighthawk metal detectorists stealing ancient hordes that they found and sold on black market. Pure greed as report it and they would have been paid vast fortunes.
Heritage crime is a crime against everyone of us.
RoberttheBruce
Active member
They also damaged an ancient monument in Hadrian's Wall.
The_Lizards_Jumpers
Well-known member
Don't think I've argued that it isn't.
My point, to the poster, was that you can't say "cutting down a tree isn't as bad as murder" and therefore directly compare the sentencing for one with the other.
RoberttheBruce
Active member
Sorry, responded to wrong post.
JM14
Well-known member
I agree, but if someone receives a longer custodial sentence for cutting down a tree than a sex offender does then something is seriously wrong with the justice system
I know it shouldn’t be a comparison, but the fact is people walk free for far, far more significant things than someone unlawfully cutting down a tree
JM14
Well-known member
I’m sure they will in this case, but a prison space shouldn’t be taken up by someone cutting down a tree when far more dangerous people who have committed some serious crimes are walking free
1finny
Well-known member
Just wondering who these far more dangerous people who have committed crimes and walking free are?
These sort of debates aren’t really that helpful.
Sentencing is a very nuanced exercise but if you can’t send people to prison for destroying an international heritage asset then that sets a pretty dangerous standard.
I know one of the defence counsel in the case reasonably well and I’m sure he has advised his client of the likely length of sentence he can expect if he is convicted after a trial. Both defendants of course have the presumption of innocence.
Muttley
Well-known member
Do they?
Baby murderers given jobs in creches? That sort of thing? Or just silly hyperbole?
The actions of who ever cut this tree down is sickening. No it's in no way analogous to a murder or whatever but that is why we have a justice system to hear the case, and pass judgement on them. If they are found guilty they will receive punishment in accordance with guidelines which if overly lenient or harsh can be appealed. But some reactionaries want to play false equivalence before the trial has concluded. Indeed it has hardly begun. Without hearing a word of evidence either for or against but. It's only a tree. It's only a wall. But probably confront them with "Just Stop Oil" Protestors sitting down in front of the traffic and they will be for bringing back the birch...
InflatableDinosaur
Active member
The prisons were so full recently we had to release a load of prisoners well before the end of their sentence.
If found guilty 5-10 years seems madness. A long community service requirement with a suspended prison sentence seems much more appropriate imo.
JM14
Well-known member
Look in any local newspaper reporting on court cases and you will see a new example every day
Here’s one from this week
Wes Streeting's ex-aide Samuel Gould given suspended sentence after exposing himself to girl
Gould, 33, has already been sacked by the minister after admitting two counts of indecent exposure. Mr Streeting previously spoke of his "horror" at the offences.
People like this still on the streets while someone will likely be inside for 5/10 years for cutting down a tree
That crime is horrific, it’s ruined someone’s life and the person charged certainly shouldn’t be free to roam the streets, yet someone will get a 10x harsher sentence for cutting down a tree.
Make it make sense
JM14
Well-known member
I absolutely get it, and I do think he should be punished if found guilty. But years in prison when prisons are already overcrowded and criminals are being released early?
Is that the best use of the prison system for someone who isn’t really any harm to the general public?
Boro.Fur
Well-known member
A short sharp shock then out on license will do it hopefully. But they both need to serve some time.
Cardiffdaffs
Well-known member
Agree. Massive fine and I mean massive should ruin their lives.