Supporters Forum Meeting - Agenda Items Request

[Air Resistance]

My suspicion is that the problem isn't Errea's and it is the clubs. We've had this problem with all our kit makers so the common denominator is the club.

My guess is that the club only think about one aspect and that is margin. They get the biggest margin by bulk ordering so when bulk orders are unavailable we get nothing. If they considered volume they'd realise they could sell far more shirts for a lower margin and end up with higher total sales. They could have more frequent, smaller orders, pay a bit more per item and make that back and more by actually having the kit to sell.

Same goes for tickets.

I’m not sure it is the club entirely - for a start they haven’t had this problem every season by any stretch. Adidas in particular there was almost always kit left over.

I don’t think you can underestimate how far in advance everything hands to be sorted in terms of kit. I suspect this season we will have ordered numbers based from two years ago, then there has been a global problem with shirt manufacture and shipping.

 

[muniz]

Are there any plans to install solar or wind power on or around the stadium? Massively increased energy costs should make this more viable and attractive for FFP purposes.

they take along time before the devices pay for themselves, so it would massively increase costs for around 10 years before they cover their own bill of making and installing them

 

[fmttmadmin]

Regarding Errea kits not being available this season and specifically about a woman's cut shirt Jo-Ann Swinnerton answered last month - look for JS in the answers

Middlesbrough Supporters Forum……Minutes 50 – Middlesbrough Supporters Forum

Below are some of the answers but there was more detail from Jo-Ann you might like to read through.

JS – Advised that for next season the club will be doing a women’s cut shirt. We have tried this in the past and it hasn’t really worked, but the beauty of Errea is that I can order 10 shirts or 50 shirts for example, so gives us the opportunity to bring in small quantity to test the waters, something we could not do with other kit providers of recent years.

RN – Asked about this season’s kit shortages, not being able to buy them early on and then running out.
JS – Advised that the club had placed orders with Errea nearly 15 months before stock was due to come in. Several things happened such as Brexit, customs and duties all put a bit of a curveball into the deliveries, we then had a major delay from Errea. The first half of stock came in, then the 2nd delivery which should have come 6-8 weeks later didn’t happen. Errea put out an apology to our supporters if you recall.

JS – When the 2nd batch of stock did eventually arrive, it was so late that for us to then place a top up order it would not have come in time, we probably would not have got that until Feb / March this year, this left us with a huge gap.

JS – We rely on the first order coming in to see what sales are like and then place a top up order from that immediately. That should normally come within 60-90 days, it just didn’t. JS – My main role at the football club is to provide revenue from the retail department, if I don’t do that, then we don’t hit our objectives, so the last thing I wanted was for that kit not to arrive. It was the first season back with Errea, so we will always have some challenges, but hopefully this year everything will be on time.

JD was the supply issue with Errea just a Middlesbrough issue or was it also other clubs that they supply?
JS – it was all the clubs.

JD – would the club consider using a British manufacturer due to all the problems you mentioned with customs and Brexit etc? as it seems like ongoing issues with the supply of our kit.
JS – We have looked at every single type of manufacturers and kit suppliers, at one point we travelled from country to country to look at this. Nobody stands out better than the next.

 

[Nano]

I’m not sure it is the club entirely - for a start they haven’t had this problem every season by any stretch. Adidas in particular there was almost always kit left over.

I don’t think you can underestimate how far in advance everything hands to be sorted in terms of kit. I suspect this season we will have ordered numbers based from two years ago, then there has been a global problem with shirt manufacture and shipping.

Having loads of kit left over is the same problem. Bulk buying to get the cheapest price instead of ordering in line with demand.

 

[Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants]

The club have raised concerns st the energy costs that have help impact ST prices.
We hsd a plan for a wind turbine that was rejected. Has the club looked at other things such as solar panels on the stadium roof etc to get everyday running costs down?

 

[riversideparmo]

Do you report this to stewards? I know some people have and feel that nothing changes.

yes ive reported it but nothing was done , to many doing it i guess .
It not difficult to spot

 

[BoroLioness]

Kids shirts have Host and Stay on them, they are not allowed gambling sponsors. Am not sure what the cut off age is - would not over 16 be classed as adults?

Depends on which department in various organisations you ask tbh Rob. My work would say 18 years old up to their 19th birthday and that is I'd they don't have a learning or physical disability...after that it goes to 21 and some folk go right up to 25

 

[BoroLioness]

how does the club plan to stop people vaping in the stands - its like standing next to a steam train during the match : -(

I recall a match I went to for Boro Womens and someone was vaping in the stands and I had to point out to them that it was not allowed. Thankfully I didn't get a mouthful and they stopped and apologised. Had they not then I would have told an official

 

[Glover_elbow]

OK - Boro were livid with Sunderland but powerless on the poor allocation we received. We have not been the only club shafted by them this season but we were most affected. I think the EFL will have had many complaints but the EFL has limited powers compared to the Premier League admin.
I get the impression that if the fixtures were in reverse that Sunderland would receive a tiny number of seats. But that is just my impression and should we draw them in the play offs we would need to keep schtum about this. ie we would surely be drawn away first so would want maximum allocation. So, therefore it would be foolish to be too open about Sunderland's possible allocation at the Riverside in advance of that.
I would think Sunderland would be far more generous to us in the play offs because they would fear we would give them a tiny number of seats.
So, don't be expecting an official response until the season is over or Sunderland are out of the play offs.

Its an interesting point if we do play them over two legs in the playoffs would they gave us the same paltry allocation is there some thing the efl can do or we stoop to thier level and give them a similar allocation

 

[newyddion]

Depends on which department in various organisations you ask tbh Rob. My work would say 18 years old up to their 19th birthday and that is I'd they don't have a learning or physical disability...after that it goes to 21 and some folk go right up to 25

Shall we have a look at what the Gambling Act 2005 says..

Section 45: Meaning of child and young person​

174.Under the Act, any person aged less than sixteen years is defined as a child. Any person aged sixteen years or more, but who is not yet eighteen, is defined as a young person.

Sections 46 & 48: Inviting children and young persons to gamble; participation by young persons in gambling​

175.In broad terms, people aged under eighteen are not to be permitted to gamble. Therefore, it is an offence for a person to invite, cause or permit a person under eighteen to gamble. It is also to be an offence for the young person to gamble (those aged sixteen and seventeen). However, children (those not yet aged sixteen) do not commit an offence if they gamble.

177.The offence of inviting a child or young person to gamble is to include advertising and other actions that bring attention to the facilities available for gambling. A person may be liable to commit the offence where his or her name or contact details are included in the information provided to the child or young person, and that person is someone to whom payment may be made or from whom information about the gambling may be obtained. However, in such a case, the person has a defence if he can prove that the information was provided without his consent or authority. A further defence is also available in a case where information is brought to a child’s attention (as opposed to being sent to the child). In those circumstances, the person whose contact details appear in the information will have a defence if he can demonstrate that it was brought to the child’s attention incidentally to it being brought to the attention of adults.

Also..

Sections 47 & 49: Invitation to enter premises; young persons entering premises​

178.Children and young persons may not enter a casino, a betting shop or an adult gaming centre at any time when facilities for gambling are being provided on the premises in reliance on the relevant premises licence. This is subject to the exception that children and young persons may enter the non-gambling area of a regional casino, but they may not enter the gambling area.

‘The non gambling area’ sounds like that would be the area of the concourse that does not have the betting desk.. I would say given that the whole area is plastered with gambling advertisements, betting odds, advertising boards, shirts with gambling company sponsor.. well I would argue that the entire concourse is for all intents and purposes a betting shop.. they even have a bar that offers loyal customers a free drink. ‘classic casino trick’

The gambling sponsored in the shirts of under 16s and under 18s is a massive problem, any complaints that I’ve made have fallen on deaf ears. I do think this will be seen in the same light as cigarette advertising in the not too distant future. It’s troubling that we are not addressing the clear and a void problem of encouraging young supporters to engage with gambling companies.

All these codes of conduct, policies, foundations, charities etc mean absolutely nothing when we’re not getting the basics right.

 

[SilentProf]

they take along time before the devices pay for themselves, so it would massively increase costs for around 10 years before they cover their own bill of making and installing them

The initial outlay would take time to be covered by savings in simple income and expenditure terms. Infrastructure costs such as stadium and training facility upgrades however are allowed under FFP rules, so any reduction in energy costs are instantly beneficial for FFP purposes.

 

[indeedido]

1. Given the numbers you recently shared Rob, there are significantly more SC kids than OAP SC holders.
I'd guess an awful lot of these kids are in the Family Zone.
It is full, but the revenue generated from this area will be easily the lowest per seat in the ground.
I think they would be barmy to extend the area to extend the same offer.
I think they should focus on cheap SC's for kids everywhere not extend free ones or such heavily discounted ones.
Once that free kids SC is given it is likely tied up for years. Better to tie that up for some revenue.

I'd rather see lower Matchday tickets and good child concessions in other parts of the stadium, rather than extending a well meant but constraining GRFZ scheme. The scheme makes sense when you have a massive ground and always have masses of empty seats. Not so good when you get closer to selling out, but you can't be half pregnant.
I'm all for getting loads of SC holders AND selling empty seats, but I genuinely believe the Family Zone is too cheap, certainly in comparison to the rest of the stadium.

2. The club merchandise availability is indefensible. "Hoping" it will be better for the next season is simply ridiculous. Why can't they be much more proactive in sales, bringing certainty to the orders placed and getting people into a routine.

3. The concourse operation is just a head scratcher. I know the Free Drink admin doesn't help process things; I know that getting/keeping trained staff is difficult; I know the club get criticism if they pre-pour pints; but it is ridiculous how much revenue/profit is turned away through ridiculously slow service.

4. The Sunderland ticket fiasco is just that and not helped by the drip feed of comms from the club.

 

[Laughing]

Can we buy replica kits from the club shop? Can we order stuff online? Do we need so many empty seats around the away fans? Can we have lines painted on the floors in the concourse so we have 3 separate queues for tile instead of 2? Can we have some pints pre pulled? Can we have a womens boro team? Can we find out what we have been doing instead of taking the knee? Can we have a black out away kit next season? Can we have season tickets than run form any point part way through a season? Can we have QR tickets that scan from a phone on at the turnstiles rather than having to print them out?

You thought about this, I mean really thought.

 

[Laughing]

Do you report this to stewards? I know some people have and feel that nothing changes.

Is it against the rules would be an obvious question?

 

[newyddion]

You thought about this, I mean really thought.

Those were just the ones straight of the top of my head, completely forgot about the gambling sponsorship on the kids kits.

So many easy fixes.. it’s annoying.

 

[Laughing]

Those were just the ones straight of the top of my head, completely forgot about the gambling sponsorship on the kids kits.

So many easy fixes.. it’s annoying.

They don't have gambling sponsors on kids kits, surely, tell me you are wrong?

 

[FishofContemplation]

Its an interesting point if we do play them over two legs in the playoffs would they gave us the same paltry allocation is there some thing the efl can do or we stoop to thier level and give them a similar allocation

Don’t think there are special rules for the play of semi finals. The away club is as usual only “entitled” to the lower of 10% or 2000. So if they give us the same again (if it includes that extra handful that was released late) they’re within the EFL rules and so would we be if we did the same.

 

[newyddion]

They don't have gambling sponsors on kids kits, surely, tell me you are wrong?

Kids ages 11 to 12 start having to buy small adults sized shirts, try buying a ‘kids shirt’ for a 15, 16, 17 year old..

Have a look at our U18s teams.. the U21s.. have a look what shirts they wear.

Now try telling me that our under 18s and under 21s wear youth sizes.

It is a MASSIVE problem and hugely damaging for our younger fans. Nothing has been done and any complaint falls on deaf ears.

 

[Laughing]

Kids ages 11 to 12 start having to buy small adults sized shirts, try buying a ‘kids shirt’ for a 15, 16, 17 year old..

Have a look at our U18s teams.. the U21s.. have a look what shirts they wear.

Now try telling me that our under 18s and under 21s wear youth sizes.

It is a MASSIVE problem and hugely damaging for our younger fans. Nothing has been done and any complaint falls on deaf ears.

View attachment 53809

You are not wrong and a massive own goal for mfc

 

[Air Resistance]

1. Given the numbers you recently shared Rob, there are significantly more SC kids than OAP SC holders.
I'd guess an awful lot of these kids are in the Family Zone.
It is full, but the revenue generated from this area will be easily the lowest per seat in the ground.
I think they would be barmy to extend the area to extend the same offer.
I think they should focus on cheap SC's for kids everywhere not extend free ones or such heavily discounted ones.
Once that free kids SC is given it is likely tied up for years. Better to tie that up for some revenue.

I'd rather see lower Matchday tickets and good child concessions in other parts of the stadium, rather than extending a well meant but constraining GRFZ scheme. The scheme makes sense when you have a massive ground and always have masses of empty seats. Not so good when you get closer to selling out, but you can't be half pregnant.
I'm all for getting loads of SC holders AND selling empty seats, but I genuinely believe the Family Zone is too cheap, certainly in comparison to the rest of the stadium.

2. The club merchandise availability is indefensible. "Hoping" it will be better for the next season is simply ridiculous. Why can't they be much more proactive in sales, bringing certainty to the orders placed and getting people into a routine.

3. The concourse operation is just a head scratcher. I know the Free Drink admin doesn't help process things; I know that getting/keeping trained staff is difficult; I know the club get criticism if they pre-pour pints; but it is ridiculous how much revenue/profit is turned away through ridiculously slow service.

4. The Sunderland ticket fiasco is just that and not helped by the drip feed of comms from the club.

In my experience the free drink in the last couple of years has been very quick