Still booing the taking the knee

Just imagine having a mural or two at the ground and in the town with a striking image like this on it.
Would this not send out a big, big message against the racists?
In a word.. no

I’m sure whoever came up with it is very pleased with themselves but in no way will it have the impact that they thing it will. It’s just one of those daft little skirt around the issue box ticking exercises that does not achieve the objective for what it was set out to do.

It’s a bit of fun, I guess but what are we actually doing with this. Searching out ethnic minorities to put them in a boro shirt to in order to prove that we’re not racist.. not just racist but we have disabled fans, we have, young fans, old fans. It’s a nothing and something closer to ‘I can’t be racist some of my best friends are black/Asian’ it’s not there and it’s not even close.
 
“It’s something we’ve been thinking about as a squad, and we’ve just come to this decision," he said.

"We obviously took the knee in the last game, but as a squad, we’ve talked about it since then. As a captain, I spoke to the boys because I wanted to take that responsibility.

"QPR obviously didn’t do it at their last game, so it was something we spoke about. There’s an important point to it, but I just feel now that there has to be action. It has to lead to something, as opposed to just being a trend. It can’t be a case of us just doing it for the sake of doing it. We want to see some action.

This was September 2020.. we haven’t seen any action.

Boro’s captain says the gesture has been a powerful force in supporting the movement for racial equality.

But now he says it's time for action. And time for change.

Boro's stance comes a week after QPR's director of football Les Ferdinand released a lengthy statement explaining why the Hoops had stopped taking a knee, with the former striker saying the impact of the gesture "has now been diluted".

Ferdinand said: "The taking of the knee has reached a point of 'good PR' but little more than that. The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge.

"What are our plans with this? Will people be happy for players to take the knee for the next 10 years but see no actual progress made?

Britt Assombalonga left in April 2021 not only did he not want to take the knee.. he didn’t want to play or perform for Boro. 1 year, 10 months and 22 days
Looks like Britt meant action by others, not him. 🙄

The very fact it's still being booed suggests it still has an impact.

You'd also have to assume the fact that Ramsey and Archer didn't even know we weren't doing it suggests the squad isn't even talking about it. My guess is they continue to not to do it out of habit more than any conscious decision.

Where's the leadership on it? Gibson? Bausor? Carrick even? Or any player for that matter. I'd do it on my own if needed and I was in their position.
 
Looks like Britt meant action by others, not him. 🙄

The very fact it's still being booed suggests it still has an impact.

You'd also have to assume the fact that Ramsey and Archer didn't even know we weren't doing it suggests the squad isn't even talking about it. My guess is they continue to not to do it out of habit more than any conscious decision.

Where's the leadership on it? Gibson? Bausor? Carrick even? Or any player for that matter. I'd do it on my own if needed and I was in their position.
Ikpeazu did it on his own of the Boro team when he was here
 
Ideally the players would release a collective public statement saying the decision not to take the knee was made because we felt it was no longer necessary. Recent escalating incidents of booing among our own fans has shown this is no longer the case. We have therefore decided to take the knee from now on until we feel this racist element of the crowd accept our right to protest. Then they should remain kneeled until any booing stops.

Either that or we continue to not take the knee until any booing starts. It would send a message to the people booing if their booing caused our players to join in every time.
 
Looks like Britt meant action by others, not him. 🙄

The very fact it's still being booed suggests it still has an impact.

You'd also have to assume the fact that Ramsey and Archer didn't even know we weren't doing it suggests the squad isn't even talking about it. My guess is they continue to not to do it out of habit more than any conscious decision.

Where's the leadership on it? Gibson? Bausor? Carrick even? Or any player for that matter. I'd do it on my own if needed and I was in their position.

Its indefensible isn’t it?
We must have had around 40 players through the club since they made the decision to keep racism alive in The Riverside.

We are asked to believe that all those players think and act differently to all the others who take the knee.

The club have made their position clear.
 
In a word.. no

I’m sure whoever came up with it is very pleased with themselves but in no way will it have the impact that they thing it will. It’s just one of those daft little skirt around the issue box ticking exercises that does not achieve the objective for what it was set out to do.

It’s a bit of fun, I guess but what are we actually doing with this. Searching out ethnic minorities to put them in a boro shirt to in order to prove that we’re not racist.. not just racist but we have disabled fans, we have, young fans, old fans. It’s a nothing and something closer to ‘I can’t be racist some of my best friends are black/Asian’ it’s not there and it’s not even close.
Thank you very much - I have been working on this so far for 2 years.
 
Looks like Britt meant action by others, not him. 🙄

The very fact it's still being booed suggests it still has an impact.

You'd also have to assume the fact that Ramsey and Archer didn't even know we weren't doing it suggests the squad isn't even talking about it. My guess is they continue to not to do it out of habit more than any conscious decision.

Where's the leadership on it? Gibson? Bausor? Carrick even? Or any player for that matter. I'd do it on my own if needed and I was in their position.
looking at the post match interview with Zach Steffen and Chuba Akpom they both look gutted and our immediate response is that is because they want to win so badly..

how about we have our record breaking striker scoring our 100th goal at the riverside with. Zach Steffen our premier league quality goalkeeper both rescuing a point for us in a game that was preceded by a section of our fans booing an anti racist gesture. Maybe that is more gutting than winning a well deserved point in a really scrappy game keeping our unrealistic dream of automatic promotion alive.

maybe that rather than the soggy pitch making the players look tired and passes going astray it was the absolute sucker punch of starting a game with that and the utter betrayal that Akpom, Archer and Ramsey must feel upon hearing that.

The celebration from Akpom looks different now in that context.. stick that in you fcuking pipe you set of fcuking racist morons.

Michael Carrick’s remarks about keeping emotions in check sounds different in this respect also.. a man who will know he cannot criticise the fans.. but the fans keeping their emotions in check could very much mean their reaction to the Stoke players taking the knee.

Disappointed with a 1-1 draw? It might well be that your thick as fcuk mate in his fake stone island jacket as just cost us automatic promotion. Kind of makes a difference then when it come to telling someone to shut the fcuk up at the games..
 
This wasn’t a decision for players or a manager.
This was a decision for Gibson and Bauser as leaders of their ‘brand’.
The players shouldn't be told how to act on this. It should be a collective decision from the players. I have no problem with the decision the players made at the time and their reasons for it. They are the people who are making / not making the gesture, not Gibson, not Bausor. I would expect Gibson/Bausor to fully support the players whichever decision they make.

I do wonder however whether this is still the view of the current players. It may well be... It could be discussed on a weekly basis for all I know.

Imagine if the players were told to take the knee against their will... what sort of message does that send out?

Or worse, told not to take the knee when they want to....
 
Or worse, told not to take the knee when they want to....

TBH, I don't believe that happens at our club (and I don't think you're suggesting it does). I Uche alone chose to kneel during his period here.

However, due to the persistent booing, I do think it's time for a stock take. This is not the same group of players that made that decision several years ago, and the non-participation does get twisted and misinterpreted as opposition amongst some sections of the support. I doubt this was a possibility that was considered during the players' initial discussions.
 
TBH, I don't believe that happens at our club (and I don't think you're suggesting it does). I Uche alone chose to kneel during his period here.

However, due to the persistent booing, I do think it's time for a stock take. This is not the same group of players that made that decision several years ago, and the non-participation does get twisted and misinterpreted as opposition amongst some sections of the support. I doubt this was a possibility that was considered during the players' initial discussions.
It was in response to 1finny's comment who said it was "a decision for Gibson and Bauser as leaders of their ‘brand’." Suggesting the players should be told whether to take a knee or not.

I totally disagree that it is a decision for Gibbo. The decision should be made by the players and it initially was.
 
The players shouldn't be told how to act on this. It should be a collective decision from the players. I have no problem with the decision the players made at the time and their reasons for it. They are the people who are making / not making the gesture, not Gibson, not Bausor. I would expect Gibson/Bausor to fully support the players whichever decision they make.

I do wonder however whether this is still the view of the current players. It may well be... It could be discussed on a weekly basis for all I know.

Imagine if the players were told to take the knee against their will... what sort of message does that send out?

Or worse, told not to take the knee when they want to....

I agree - if informed and able to do so.

Looks like the significant majority of other clubs take a different view to MFC.
That ought to make us wonder why our players have come to a different collective view.

These kind of decisions call for leadership and, by default, the leaders of our club have made their position clear.

If it had gone the other way no one would object (disagree with maybe) to individuals taking a stance not to take the knee - Zaha for instance.
 
This thread will happen week in week out, while players take the knee on their own decision. You cannot change peoples attitude and never will, it's their make up. So I'll wait till Saturday night for a continuation.
 
I agree - if informed and able to do so.

Looks like the significant majority of other clubs take a different view to MFC.
That ought to make us wonder why our players have come to a different collective view.

These kind of decisions call for leadership and, by default, the leaders of our club have made their position clear.

If it had gone the other way no one would object (disagree with maybe) to individuals taking a stance not to take the knee - Zaha for instance.
If it was a white player would they avoid criticism? Genuine question. Are there any cases at the moment where a team takes the knee and a white individual does not?

A collective approach is the best approach in my opinion. Prevent anyone being in a position where they are open for abuse.
 
This thread will happen week in week out, while players take the knee on their own decision. You cannot change peoples attitude and never will, it's their make up. So I'll wait till Saturday night for a continuation.
I agree that it's almost impossible to change an individuals racist attitude.

What we as a club need to do though is not give these racists a platform to spew their bile from the stands. It might take some club bans for the knee taking booers. Once a few are banned then the others will hopefully keep quiet.
 
Yep. I mean this was the rationale at the time wasn't it? Taking the knee is a hollow gesture, more needs to be done etc. I've not seen us do any more or anything different than any other club, happy to be corrected.
taking the knee is only a hollow gesture if they don't do other things. On it's own its a symbolism of no tolerance for racism and unity with minorities. The same people calling it a hollow gesture likely wave their union flag around and sing god save the king, both hollow gestures and symbolism of unity.
 
It was in response to 1finny's comment who said it was "a decision for Gibson and Bauser as leaders of their ‘brand’." Suggesting the players should be told whether to take a knee or not.

I totally disagree that it is a decision for Gibbo. The decision should be made by the players and it initially was.
they don't get to own the thoughts and feelings of players, I don't think it should be their choice at all.
 
taking the knee is only a hollow gesture if they don't do other things. On it's own its a symbolism of no tolerance for racism and unity with minorities. The same people calling it a hollow gesture likely wave their union flag around and sing god save the king, both hollow gestures and symbolism of unity.
A lot goes on at grass roots level - from kids with Asperger's taking penalties at the Riverside to giving out boots and soon shirts also to disadvantaged kids, many from BAME backgrounds. Maybe it should all be highlighted more. But those messages sometimes get lost.
How do we challenge those that boo. How do we drown out the racists and make them realise that they and their views do not belong.
I think that what I am doing is a practical part of that process. Something that has been successful elsewhere in Cardiff and Blackburn for instance. Am hoping you will all join and be part of this drive to celebrate our diversity and inclusivity and alienate the booing bigots.
 
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