Stewy D on Undr The Cosh

TheYorkshireTerrier said:
Just looking into some other comments made by players on Karanka at the time to see if they all thought he was an arrogant pr*ck with 'mental health issues' as some declare on here...

Leadbitter on when he was sacked:

"Speaking on behalf of the players, the news (of Karanka's departure) was disappointing. We've had three-and-a-half years of memories, some really good memories.

"We'd all like to wish Aitor all the best. He came in this morning, thanking us for all the efforts. We're a bit disappointed at the minute, but we move on."

He also said this: “Aitor came in after Tony and Aitor was brilliant. Aitor's coaching and his work on the training pitch was top drawer. His sessions and his work rate was second to none.”

Friend on joining his Birmingham team:

“Aitor is a big reason for my move,”

“I had a successful time with him at Middlesbrough and I know what he’s all about. I know he’s looking to build something here and the club has got ambition.”

Clayton on doing the same:

"When I found out Birmingham were interested, Aitor was the big thing for me. He knows how to succeed in this league.

"We have a manager here that, if given the right tools, when he gets it right he's proven he can do it."

David Nugent after the Hull game:

“We’re all behind him and always have been,”

“We’ve had a bit of a struggle in the past couple of weeks with results but I think (Friday) showed that we are all together - a full house at the Riverside and the fans are on our side.”

Woodgate on Karanka inspiring him to become a manager:

“It was under Aitor Karanka when I really wanted to become a manager because I saw how organised he was and his standards and the structure to his game,"
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Downing couldn’t even bring himself to compliment Karanka on the coaching side of his game. Harsh I feel. He clearly had us organised and we played with a game plan. He coached them well, that can’t be argued I feel.
 
Diego said:
Downing couldn’t even bring himself to compliment Karanka on the coaching side of his game. Harsh I feel. He clearly had us organised and we played with a game plan. He coached them well, that can’t be argued I feel.
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Exactly, so for some fans to suggest the players alone got us through those 10 unbeaten games after the walkout is ridiculous. I remember an interview with Karanka where he talked about the preparation he would do before a game (this one), I reckon that was more pivotal to that run than a meeting in Leadbitter's house.
 
jonny_greenings_sock said:
Karanka? To be honest I’m not sure anyone could have succeeded with Forest and Birmingham, they’re both basket cases but he did poorly.

Can’t discount what happened before us as well. I don’t think you can be a mug and rise to being Mourinho’s number 2 at Real Madrid and winning the Champions League.

Done to death but his record with us is brilliant. Took over a lower mid table team, playoff final then backed that up with automatic promotion. Disastrous in the PL. But still, objectively the best results we’ve had in 15 years from any manager, twice.
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The PL campaign ended in complete disaster because we employed Steve Agnew after Karanka left. As Karanka kept pointing out we were doing well to be just above the bottom three until we lost at Stoke. While I don't think Karanka would have kept us up we would have been closer with him in charge than we were in the end. People underestimate how difficult it is now for a newly promoted club to stay up and recent examples in West Brom, Fulham and Norwich prove that.
 
Leadbitter has already said that the club brought in too many Spanish players and staff after promotion and it fell apart.

I think people need to remember how thoroughly awful the Premier League season was. We hadn’t won any of the 9 games before Karanka left and had only scored 3 goals in those games. We hadn’t won for roughly 3 months. We’d won 4 games in 7 months. It was absolutely shocking. We were going down with or without him. And there would’ve had to be massive change in personnel in the summer of 2017 regardless.

I was a massive fan of Karanka for ages but it turned sour after a while. He became a very extreme character, IMO. To my mind it’s clear that the players came together and got us over the line and into the Premier League in the end. Any manager who walks out like that, Jesus wept. How old is he? 6?

Someone mentioned another poster questioning Karanka’s mentality earlier but I always remember Alan Davies calling Mourinho a “walking narcissistic personality disorder,” and I think Karanka became exactly the same. He was briefing against his own players before he left, FFS. He criticised the club, the players, the staff, the supporters.

We had a really solid group of players and they came together and got the job done. How were the ever going to take Karanka seriously again after that? As has been said loads of times, team spirit will take you a long way. Thankfully we had some real leaders in the squad at that time.

As indeedido said though, the main thing to come out of the podcast for me is the way the club works. Treating Downing like that was very poor form. It sounds like a bit of a mess TBH. Something else for the bloke from Norwich to sort out, hopefully.
 
I think what needs to remembered is Downing is not going to sit on a podcast and paint himself in any bad light.

How do we know part of the reason isn’t down to his work ethic or lifestyle or anything? - He spoke a lot about working under Big Sam and enjoyed the fact you could go out drinking and on the trips to Dubai with one training session etc. I don’t think Karanka is that kind of manager, it seemed to be all strictly professional. Maybe Downing wanted a different lifestyle and Karanka has little tolerance for that in his expectations of an athlete. There’s two sides to every story.

Downing also said he went to the club about trying to get truth to come out, so that people didn’t think it was his fault. But is it really the truth he wants to come out, or just to change peoples perception? There’s a difference. But either way, if going on a podcast is part of doing that, then he’s only going to paint himself in a positive light. I mean somebody that goes to the club trying to get news out that it wasn’t his fault is obviously very conscious of what people think of him, So it’s not out of the realms of possibility that he would go on a podcast trying to tilt things in his favour.

He highlighted the Ramírez falling out with Karanka... but I don’t think Ramirez had the best track record at his previous club either.
 
HiredGun123 said:
I think what needs to remembered is Downing is not going to sit on a podcast and paint himself in any bad light.

How do we know part of the reason isn’t down to his work ethic or lifestyle or anything? - He spoke a lot about working under Big Sam and enjoyed the fact you could go out drinking and on the trips to Dubai with one training session etc. I don’t think Karanka is that kind of manager, it seemed to be all strictly professional. Maybe Downing wanted a different lifestyle and Karanka has little tolerance for that in his expectations of an athlete. There’s two sides to every story.

Downing also said he went to the club about trying to get truth to come out, so that people didn’t think it was his fault. But is it really the truth he wants to come out, or just to change peoples perception? There’s a difference. But either way, if going on a podcast is part of doing that, then he’s only going to paint himself in a positive light.
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Good point about Allardyce and the Dubai trip that to be fair
 
Humpty said:
Downing played more games than any other player that season. So I think it’s a bit of a stretch to question his ethics, lifestyle or professionalism.
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That doesnt necessarily mean he was professional off the field. He cleary had a massive beef with AK early on and vice versa, as a senior player in the dressing room it must have changed the dynamic from the togetherness of the previous season. I dont believe either of them were innocent parties. Just because downing is a local lad who had a great spell first time round mean his version of events should be taken as gospel.
 
Be interesting to have Craig Hignetts view on Karanka on another podcast!. We all loved the first couple of Championship years under Karanka but Downings story about Ramirez not wanting to play against Stoke and Downing being left out sounds like one mindset on the road to failure - we could all see it as fans so why play Ramirez towards the end?
 
HiredGun123 said:
I think what needs to remembered is Downing is not going to sit on a podcast and paint himself in any bad light.

How do we know part of the reason isn’t down to his work ethic or lifestyle or anything? - He spoke a lot about working under Big Sam and enjoyed the fact you could go out drinking and on the trips to Dubai with one training session etc. I don’t think Karanka is that kind of manager, it seemed to be all strictly professional. Maybe Downing wanted a different lifestyle and Karanka has little tolerance for that in his expectations of an athlete. There’s two sides to every story.

Downing also said he went to the club about trying to get truth to come out, so that people didn’t think it was his fault. But is it really the truth he wants to come out, or just to change peoples perception? There’s a difference. But either way, if going on a podcast is part of doing that, then he’s only going to paint himself in a positive light. I mean somebody that goes to the club trying to get news out that it wasn’t his fault is obviously very conscious of what people think of him, So it’s not out of the realms of possibility that he would go on a podcast trying to tilt things in his favour.

He highlighted the Ramírez falling out with Karanka... but I don’t think Ramirez had the best track record at his previous club either.
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What? You think based on, just the possibility downing might be being dishonest, then he is probably being dishonest.

Equally you could just take what he says at face value without evidence to the contrary.
 
Given Downing has said he knew he'd made a mistake rejoining Middlesbrough with the first couple of days, it's hard to see it as an accumulation of issues.

They didn't get on from the very start.
 
TeaCider said:
Given Downing has said he knew he'd made a mistake rejoining Middlesbrough with the first couple of days, it's hard to see it as an accumulation of issues.

They didn't get on from the very start.
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and he still seems to have a bitter grudge to this day.
 
Laughing said:
What? You think based on, just the possibility downing might be being dishonest, then he is probably being dishonest.

Equally you could just take what he says at face value without evidence to the contrary.
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Indeed, but many people on here seem to be taking his words as gospel.

My point was there was a few things earlier in the podcast that gave an possible insight to his mentality and possible reasons why he and Karanka didn’t get along later, and I’d guess it wasn’t all one sided.

Like i said, He even went to the club pretty much hoping to change the public perception of himself via the media. Somebody who is that conscious of the public image is generally going to spin things in their favour if given the opportunity to, when this kind of topic comes up.

At no point in my post did I say he was being completely dishonest though..
 
HiredGun123 said:
Indeed, but many people on here seem to be taking his words as gospel.

My point was there was a few things earlier in the podcast that gave an possible insight to his mentality and possible reasons why he and Karanka didn’t get along later, and I’d guess it wasn’t all one sided.
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Completely agree rather than setting the record straight i think downing's bitter ramblings against AK indicate he wasn't an innocent party
 
Glover_elbow said:
Completely agree rather than setting the record straight i think downing's bitter ramblings against AK indicate he wasn't an innocent party
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I didn't think Downing was bitterly rambling about Karanka. You are making some big assumptions there.

I am guessing you don't like Downing very much.
 
Humpty said:
That meeting came about after the Charlton game. Is there any surprise that Charlton was so bad given Karanka’s conduct?
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If we won that Charlton game then that would have showed that the Manager was at fault and i suggest he wouldnt have come back. That Charlton game was the worst match i have ever attended.

We then went on to win 6 in a row.
 
Laughing said:
I didn't think Downing was bitterly rambling about Karanka. You are making some big assumptions there.

I am guessing you don't like Downing very much.
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I love Downing as a former player of ours, BUT I certainly don't take all that he said in his podcast as gospel.
Everyone has their perspective.
The person's recollection I'd most like to hear is George Friend, as I know him to be straight and about the most decent bloke I have met.
Downing is clearly sensitive and a bit soft and there was clearly a clash. He was still a great player for us etc etc.
Karanka clearly has an ego and is a control freak. He was still the most successful manager we have had for 15 years and got us promoted.
Gibson is the one who comes out of this podcast most tarnished in my view. There are so many disgruntled former players and staff. They can't ALL be making it up.
 
indeedido said:
I love Downing as a former player of ours, BUT I certainly don't take all that he said in his podcast as gospel.
Everyone has their perspective.
The person's recollection I'd most like to hear is George Friend, as I know him to be straight and about the most decent bloke I have met.
Downing is clearly sensitive and a bit soft and there was clearly a clash. He was still a great player for us etc etc.
Karanka clearly has an ego and is a control freak. He was still the most successful manager we have had for 15 years and got us promoted.
Gibson is the one who comes out of this podcast most tarnished in my view. There are so many disgruntled former players and staff. They can't ALL be making it up.
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I don’t think anyone would say Gibson hasn’t been great for the club, but I’d imagine dealing with him in business is a different matter.

You don’t generally attain that level of success without being ruthless and treating people as a commodity. That’s just the reality when it comes to business on that scale. It doesn’t make it right but that’s how it is.

Downing was definitely treated poorly when it come to the contract at the end, signing the waiver etc. I’d imagine it’s the harsh reality for a lot of pro’s near retirement, in some way or another, getting treated quite poorly when they’re no longer really needed.
 
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