Stewy D on Undr The Cosh

I think downing had a chip on his shoulder rightly or wrongly from the off after a frosty first impression from AK. This turned into a mutual dislike. I have an awful lot of time for AK i think he is almost obsessive in his drive for footballing success, i think downing thought better of his methods after working for some other very good managers. I still maintain that whether it was AK or downing at fault or more than likely a bit of both, i think it soured the dressing room and results faltered. downing seems to still be extremely bitter about it even now.
Wheres the evidence of this obsessive drive or at least the fruits of it? After his time at boro there is none. The man might be said to have been a busy fool and certainly grounds for considering him a pompous a$$. Shame, it couldve been so much different for him and us - maybe he needed a foil to temper him and his hitherto baseless conceit as a manager
 
The most troubling part of the interview was how Gibson twice went back on his word over contract and contract extension.
A lot of players have left Boro with a bad taste in the mouth and have nothing good to say about the club hierarchy (plenty good about the fans and ex teammates) Schwarzer, Viduka, Mills, Southgate.
Of course there is always another side to the argument, but there is a thread here, there is substance.

For my part, I still thank Karanka for his time here. He gave Gibson a £170m opportunity.
I also still love Downing - a local lad who made the club a fortune in fees and was one of the best players to pull our shirt on.
That's my take away, though to be fair Gibson seems to still have a good reputation in football, perhaps he doesn't trust those who he employs to make the big decisions and should be more hands off?
 
Burnley were 7 points above Middlesbrough at the point Karanka walked out.

Burnley didn't lose a single match in the second half of the season, we lost 4, one of those being the Charlton match which Karanka wasn't in charge for, that's why the gap flipped.

This is the form table from Karanka's return:

View attachment 26339

If we limped over the line, then surely so did Burnley.
If you listen to the interview, it’s quite clear that things had been bubbling over before the walkout hence the drop in form from new year. The public walk out highlighted the issues at hand and demonstrated the reason why we threw away a 10 point lead on Burnley.
 
Same, it’s a cracking listen and my main feeling is sadness that he hated it here through his whole second spell. I’ve been as critical as anyone of Downing’s performances in his second spell but we are his hometown club, and on balance he’s given the club far more than he’s taken away throughout his career. Just sad really, he deserved to enjoy it at that stage of his career.

The Gibson / contract stuff was a big surprise. For all the criticisms you can level at Gibbo, we all think of him as a gentleman, a man of honour and one of the few good guys in football - was a real surprise that he’d treat a homegrown player with 440 appearances so shabbily at the end. I wonder if there were other things happening and he just took his eye off the ball.

I’m a massive Karanka fan but the stuff about his little black book of times players had annoyed him was mental!

Downing and Karanka just had a massive personality clash didn’t they. I think we’d have to wait for the Grant Leadbitter or Ben Gibson or Adam Clayton episode to find out the real truth.

It’s interesting in the first episode when Downing is very clear that he’s a confidence player, and only played well when he had the maximum support of everyone around him (like O’Neill, who would tell him he was the best winger in the league). I think being the quiet lad personality-wise that he is, who obviously doesn’t like confrontation and all that, having a manager who didn’t really like him probably affected his performances more than most.

I’ve always slagged Downing for not showing enough personality on the pitch, especially when he was supposed to be coming in as a Premier League-quality number 10 like Merson, but you start to understand it when you think about how much it would have affected a lad like that whose manager just didn’t like him.

Didn’t realise Victor Valdes was such a knob. That part about how Man United’s GK coach Eric Steele walked out after a month because he couldn’t work with him was interesting.
To be fair Ben Gibson has corroborated Downing’s story to an extent, particularly with regards to Karanka walking out and the players doing it for themselves.
 
That's my take away, though to be fair Gibson seems to still have a good reputation in football, perhaps he doesn't trust those who he employs to make the big decisions and should be more hands off?
I think it's telling that Downing says it happens frequently and at other clubs as well. Having watched other pods, various other players have mentioned similar situations with other chairmen. I can understand not wanting to put ourselves at commercial disadvantage by taking the moral high ground in these situations.

Whilst Karanka's behaviour is undoubtedly bizarre, it's telling that Downing and Rhodes weren't his signings. Far too much interference from above in that case and I'm surprised he didn't walk when they were signed. You don't employ someone who was worked with some of the most successful managers of all time and then blindside them continually.
 
Karanka was employed as a head coach not a manager. It’s literally in his job description that he’s not solely responsible for transfers.
 
If you listen to the interview, it’s quite clear that things had been bubbling over before the walkout hence the drop in form from new year. The public walk out highlighted the issues at hand and demonstrated the reason why we threw away a 10 point lead on Burnley.

That goes without saying?
I don't think anyone thought he just walked out whilst everything was hunky dory.
 
The most troubling part of the interview was how Gibson twice went back on his word over contract and contract extension.
A lot of players have left Boro with a bad taste in the mouth and have nothing good to say about the club hierarchy (plenty good about the fans and ex teammates) Schwarzer, Viduka, Mills, Southgate.
Of course there is always another side to the argument, but there is a thread here, there is substance.

For my part, I still thank Karanka for his time here. He gave Gibson a £170m opportunity.
I also still love Downing - a local lad who made the club a fortune in fees and was one of the best players to pull our shirt on.
I first had concerns and a bit of shame on how MFC treated players when Branca was here. Marvellous player for the short time he was here and it looks like we "did him dirty". Wont pretend to know all the ins and outs but suffice to say he took us to court
 
One of the big things to come out of this is how difficult it must be to ply your trade in the public eye and read opinions from people who know nothing about you. Then stay quiet and not defend what is going on.

It must be very very difficult.

I'd be interested to know if Karanka is aware of these interviews.

I'm inclined to believe Downing on this, but he's done multiple public interviews now where he's slated him as a manager and person.
 
I'd be interested to know if Karanka is aware of these interviews.

I'm inclined to believe Downing on this, but he's done multiple public interviews now where he's slated him as a manager and person.
I don't doubt that downing is recalling the stories through a downing prism.

We need to remember that when assessing the situation. All that said what he says comes across as an honest recounting.
 
Karanka was employed as a head coach not a manager. It’s literally in his job description that he’s not solely responsible for transfers.
True, but wasn't the Peter Kenyon link up (Atleti etc) mooted around the same time? Maybe he thought there would be greater strategic input into transfers rather than signing the chairman's mate and head coach's nephew?
 
True, but wasn't the Peter Kenyon link up (Atleti etc) mooted around the same time? Maybe he thought there would be greater strategic input into transfers rather than signing the chairman's mate and head coach's nephew?
Possibly…we probably wouldn’t have been promoted without the chairman’s mate or the head coaches nephew though.
 
For a bit of balance I wouldn’t mind hearing a Leadbitter, Friend , or Clayton podcast. We all know Karanka could be harsh and not the type to be all pally with his players but the bottom line is whatever he did that season worked as we were promoted. I’m interested in especially hearing someone like Leadbitters take on the season. He still has good things to say about AK on social media.
 
I'm sure Clayton said Karanka was the best manager he'd ever worked under when he did that drunken Twitter Q&A.
 
I'm sure Clayton said Karanka was the best manager he'd ever worked under when he did that drunken Twitter Q&A.

Yeah he did to be fair. Maybe it’s more the fact Karanka didn’t appreciate players were bought for him and he used it against them. Downing clearly is the type of player who needs love constantly so Karanka probably mis managed him. But someone like Leadbitter probably loved that stand offish style.
 
One of the big things to come out of this is how difficult it must be to ply your trade in the public eye and read opinions from people who know nothing about you. Then stay quiet and not defend what is going on.

It must be very very difficult.

Cracking point @Laughing, particularly when there are so many different places for people to vent these days it might be harder than ever to avoid listening to these opinions and stay calm and avoid reacting - radio phone ins, newspapers, comments on online articles, Facebook/social media, fan sites like this one, tweets, people talking/shouting things at them directly...etc. So difficult to shut yourself off from it and not listen.

It must be horrendous, and so hard to just suck it up, be professional and say nothing. Not to mention the toll that must take on your own mental health and that of your family too.
 
Wheres the evidence of this obsessive drive or at least the fruits of it? After his time at boro there is none. The man might be said to have been a busy fool and certainly grounds for considering him a pompous a$$. Shame, it couldve been so much different for him and us - maybe he needed a foil to temper him and his hitherto baseless conceit as a manager
Karanka? To be honest I’m not sure anyone could have succeeded with Forest and Birmingham, they’re both basket cases but he did poorly.

Can’t discount what happened before us as well. I don’t think you can be a mug and rise to being Mourinho’s number 2 at Real Madrid and winning the Champions League.

Done to death but his record with us is brilliant. Took over a lower mid table team, playoff final then backed that up with automatic promotion. Disastrous in the PL. But still, objectively the best results we’ve had in 15 years from any manager, twice.
 
Just looking into some other comments made by players on Karanka at the time to see if they all thought he was an arrogant pr*ck with 'mental health issues' as some declare on here...

Leadbitter on when he was sacked:

"Speaking on behalf of the players, the news (of Karanka's departure) was disappointing. We've had three-and-a-half years of memories, some really good memories.

"We'd all like to wish Aitor all the best. He came in this morning, thanking us for all the efforts. We're a bit disappointed at the minute, but we move on."

He also said this: “Aitor came in after Tony and Aitor was brilliant. Aitor's coaching and his work on the training pitch was top drawer. His sessions and his work rate was second to none.”

Friend on joining his Birmingham team:

“Aitor is a big reason for my move,”

“I had a successful time with him at Middlesbrough and I know what he’s all about. I know he’s looking to build something here and the club has got ambition.”

Clayton on doing the same:

"When I found out Birmingham were interested, Aitor was the big thing for me. He knows how to succeed in this league.

"We have a manager here that, if given the right tools, when he gets it right he's proven he can do it."

David Nugent after the Hull game:

“We’re all behind him and always have been,”

“We’ve had a bit of a struggle in the past couple of weeks with results but I think (Friday) showed that we are all together - a full house at the Riverside and the fans are on our side.”

Woodgate on Karanka inspiring him to become a manager:

“It was under Aitor Karanka when I really wanted to become a manager because I saw how organised he was and his standards and the structure to his game,"
 
Cracking point @Laughing, particularly when there are so many different places for people to vent these days it might be harder than ever to avoid listening to these opinions and stay calm and avoid reacting - radio phone ins, newspapers, comments on online articles, Facebook/social media, fan sites like this one, tweets, people talking/shouting things at them directly...etc. So difficult to shut yourself off from it and not listen.

It must be horrendous, and so hard to just suck it up, be professional and say nothing. Not to mention the toll that must take on your own mental health and that of your family too.
Worse when you live here and are staying here too, he says that a few times in the interview.
 
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