Stewy D on Undr The Cosh

Of course you do and no one is disputing that. The point raised was that we didn't falter and stutter when Karanka lost it. We were 10 points clear of Burnley at the new year and we ended up finishing 4 points behind them.
 
TheYorkshireTerrier said:
To me limping over the line is giving up the point lead in the final run of games. Having that spell in February/March and then coming back from such a big fallout, galvanising the squad again and going on that run that got us promoted, is the opposite of limping.

The way we won those games vs Reading, Bolton etc didn't look like a team that had fell out with the manager. The battling draws with Burnley and Brighton, and how we should've won against Birmingham if not for the linesman. That didn't look like a dressing room that was so against the manager like Downing paints a picture of.
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I believe it was Ben Gibson that said the players had a meeting after the Karanka flounce and agreed to do it for themselves as a group. They'd come too far too let it slide. I remember Grant hosting a party/dinner at his house around the time and every player turned up. Shows how good the dressing room was and the respect they had for each other.
 
TheYorkshireTerrier said:
Just got onto the Karanka walkout part, Downing says we limped over the line, but we won 6 games on the bounce after he came back, and went unbeaten for the rest of the season. We lost 3 out of 4 before the walkout. Downing played the most games that season out of any outfield player. He was hardly booed for months either.

This is why I can't take everything Downing says for fact, he clearly has an agenda. Players like Leadbitter absolutely loved him, but Downing didn't have any respect for him clearly.

And when it comes to Pulis he says 'he fell out with other players but he was alright with me' ' I was his favourite'... bit hypocritical...
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Downing says Karanka came across as arrogant, saying things like "You're lucky I'm here because none of you have played in the Premier League but I can get you there", but I'm wondering if the message was slightly misinterpreted due to the language barrier.
 
Humpty said:
I believe it was Ben Gibson that said the players had a meeting after the Karanka flounce and agreed to do it for themselves as a group. They'd come too far too let it slide. I remember Grant hosting a party/dinner at his house around the time and every player turned up. Shows how good the dressing room was and the respect they had for each other.
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No one is doubting that, but I don't think you can discard Karanka and his coaching team from that spell after the walkout.
 
In the absence of contrary accounts I am not sure why you wouldn't just take downing at face value.
 
Laughing said:
In the absence of contrary accounts I am not sure why you wouldn't just take downing at face value.
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I think downing had a chip on his shoulder rightly or wrongly from the off after a frosty first impression from AK. This turned into a mutual dislike. I have an awful lot of time for AK i think he is almost obsessive in his drive for footballing success, i think downing thought better of his methods after working for some other very good managers. I still maintain that whether it was AK or downing at fault or more than likely a bit of both, i think it soured the dressing room and results faltered. downing seems to still be extremely bitter about it even now.
 
I don't think going your last 10 games unbeaten is limping over the line. We got 89 points from 46 games, an amount which guarantees automatic promotion almost every year, Brighton were just unlucky.

I loved the Aitor years but he was definitely a bit of a nutcase and wouldn't want him back. I don't particularly trust what Downing says about him either though as he clearly has a dislike for him.
 
Glover_elbow said:
I think downing had a chip on his shoulder rightly or wrongly from the off after a frosty first impression from AK. This turned into a mutual dislike. I have an awful lot of time for AK i think he is almost obsessive in his drive for footballing success, i think downing thought better of his methods after working for some other very good managers. I still maintain that whether it was AK or downing at fault or more than likely a bit of both, i think it soured the dressing room and results faltered. downing seems to still be extremely bitter about it even now.
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I don't doubt downing played a part and we have heard only one side of the story. I suspect downing isn't lying but telling the tale from his perspective.

However is down to karanka to manage the situation and he didn't.
 
Glover_elbow said:
I think downing had a chip on his shoulder rightly or wrongly from the off after a frosty first impression from AK. This turned into a mutual dislike. I have an awful lot of time for AK i think he is almost obsessive in his drive for footballing success, i think downing thought better of his methods after working for some other very good managers. I still maintain that whether it was AK or downing at fault or more than likely a bit of both, i think it soured the dressing room and results faltered. downing seems to still be extremely bitter about it even now.
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I have disregard for anyone who has a name that rhymes with a rude word.
Such as ... Matt ,
Sugar
Karanka
 
Laughing said:
I don't doubt downing played a part and we have heard only one side of the story. I suspect downing isn't lying but telling the tale from his perspective.

However is down to karanka to manage the situation and he didn't.
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Again I think it's telling how Downing refers to being one of Pulis' favourites, but noted he fell out with other players.
 
I think theres some similarities with AK and Riochs methods both old school strict disciplinarian's , my way or the high way which worked so well with the young 86 team. As riochs team changed and grew older, the squad started to question his ways. I think downing was the same as a seasoned international He didnt like, approve or support AKs methods and that filtered through the squad. As for the book it was more than likely he kept a diary on all matters, he was meticulous and part of that would be entries on player indiscipline and insubordination, i don't see it as a grudge list.
 
Glover_elbow said:
I think theres some similarities with AK and Riochs methods both old school strict disciplinarian's , my way or the high way which worked so well with the young 86 team. As riochs team changed and grew older, the squad started to question his ways. I think downing was the same as a seasoned international He didnt like, approve or support AKs methods and that filtered through the squad. As for the book it was more than likely he kept a diary on all matters, he was meticulous and part of that would be entries on player indiscipline and insubordination, i don't see it as a grudge list.
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Agree with the bits about Rioch and the problems as the team grew older, but not the bit about AK.

He was brilliant at organising a team, but his management of the players and staff leaves a lot to be desired.

With hindsight I think he should have gone after he walked out, but I understand why Gibson stuck with him and that secured us promotion, but it also meant we surrendered the following season.

I'm pretty sure Gibson saw promotion as being far more important than the relegation, given the financial boost it provided.

He even talked about the 'Burnley model' at the time, in that promotion was key, because even relegation from the PL meant that the club had a huge financial advantage the following season, when looking to get back up again.
 
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