Stewy D on Undr The Cosh
- Thread starter Colin Warnek
- Start date
HiredGun123
Well-known member
Maybe but plenty of players have also spoken positively of Karanka...
I mean the 2014/2015 campaign was superb. All the players behind the manager and staff etc. Then the next season the chairman brings in said person and it all goes to hell......
Colin Warnek
Well-known member
theredrooster
Well-known member
It's not as simple as pointing the finger at a new signing (although any new entrant to a group shifts the dynamic).
I suspect it's less about the person and more the way he was signed and who by. Add onto that management techniques which whilst proven in the short term might not necessarily have proved to be as effective over time and it all starts to unravel.
I'm grateful to both Downing and Karanka for what they did for our football club but we need to start to focus on moving forward. Hopefully Warnock's root and branch review (number 5326!), leads to some learning from past mistakes and changes in approach both on and off the pitch. Kieran Scott's appointment is an encouraging start.
Not fishing in the slightest mate. It's just how it seems to me. Some of our fans appear almost obsessed with the bloke.
joeydiaz
Well-known member
Downing openly admitted both O’Neil and Allardyce (his previous 2 managers) blew smoke up his ****.
He’s came back into the club with a Messiah complex, he mentions it a few times about dropping down a league to get us promoted, that’s admirable but no-one had a gun to his head and he will have being paid handsomely for doing so.
Karanka was evidently not that type of manager, he had no loyalty or connection to Downing and it wasn’t his signing.
Ultimately I fully believe there is some aspects of truth in what Stewy is saying but I feel like there is definitely more to it and would be interested in hearing in what Aitor has to say.
Has anyone considered that Gibson pulling the plug on this so called 1 year extension was retribution for the part to play Downing had in Karanka and subsequently the clubs downfall?
He’s came back into the club with a Messiah complex, he mentions it a few times about dropping down a league to get us promoted, that’s admirable but no-one had a gun to his head and he will have being paid handsomely for doing so.
Karanka was evidently not that type of manager, he had no loyalty or connection to Downing and it wasn’t his signing.
Ultimately I fully believe there is some aspects of truth in what Stewy is saying but I feel like there is definitely more to it and would be interested in hearing in what Aitor has to say.
Has anyone considered that Gibson pulling the plug on this so called 1 year extension was retribution for the part to play Downing had in Karanka and subsequently the clubs downfall?
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parmoboy
Well-known member
I was going to post the same thing. How do we know senior players didn't have a private meeting with Gibson right after Karanka walked out, telling him that Downing had been causing trouble for Karanka behind the scenes.
Downing said during the podcast that Gibson initially told them Karanka wouldn't be coming back. What happened that made him change his mind?
Jr. SkinnyLegs
Well-known member
Karanka was a weird fella. I remember him being petty towards the fans when we played Blackburn and there was some calls for a 4-4-2 by the fans and he played it, we lost and I think he mentioned that in a post match interview. He slagged off fans against West Ham at home in the premier league season when apparently the fans forced him to go long ball late on to try and get a draw. He was trying to be Mourinho.
As a manager you have to work with what you have been given and try and get the best out of those players. Its in the job title. I don't think he was particularly good at that. I felt like we had a great leadership team within the playing staff the premier league season with a lot of experience and I think that got us over the line. Tactically I thought he was great though.
As a manager you have to work with what you have been given and try and get the best out of those players. Its in the job title. I don't think he was particularly good at that. I felt like we had a great leadership team within the playing staff the premier league season with a lot of experience and I think that got us over the line. Tactically I thought he was great though.
Laughing
Well-known member
Jeez, how do we not know this, how do we not know that.... The facts are we don't. Why are people so ready to analyze every word out of downings mouth and look for reasons to blame him, I just don't get it? Furthermore if Downing caused Karanka to walk out then Karanka is weak as **** and should be no where near management.
I have no idea what happened, but the evidence we have suggests that downing was badly managed by Gibson, lied to and cast aside. The evidence also suggests that Karanka created divisions in the changing rooms between the spanish lads and the english lads. Again really bad management.
We know for a fact that Karanka walked out on his job, and I would hope we would all agree he should have been no where near the club the moment he did that.
I have no idea what happened, but the evidence we have suggests that downing was badly managed by Gibson, lied to and cast aside. The evidence also suggests that Karanka created divisions in the changing rooms between the spanish lads and the english lads. Again really bad management.
We know for a fact that Karanka walked out on his job, and I would hope we would all agree he should have been no where near the club the moment he did that.
jonny_greenings_sock
Well-known member
Oh 100%, appointing Steve Agnew was the worst manager and decision Steve Gibson has ever made and man we’ve had some turkeys.
Have posted this before but it’s not like he came in when we were dead and buried with four games left. He came in in March with 11 games to play, lost 7 and won 1. That team had the fifth best defence in the Premier League when he took over (and the worst attack).
Agree that he inherited some serious issues by the sound of it, but still, any proper manager would have had a decent chance of keeping us up with 11 games.
futureboy
Well-known member
I'm so frustrated to hear what Downing has to say about the "Spanish lads" and how they turned up in 2016 for a Prem payday, had their own clique, played rubbish, got us relegated, downed tools and didn't give a s*** about the club. It was blatantly obvious at the time that was going to happen, and it was blatantly obvious when it was happening. We threw away our shot at staying in the Prem because AK signed a load of mercenaries (not all Spanish, to be fair) who didn't care for the Boro at all and had no heart for a fight. This isn't an anti-foreign-players post, of course (and such a thing would be futile in modern football anyway) - it's just a comment on the specific situation we went through and the specific players who caused it.
Agree completely. Higgy had some things to say about him too, AK’s clearly a bit volatile and capable of petty behaviour, which will often be met with the same in the testosterone footy world.
Some of the mental gymnastics by a couple on here to speculate hypothetical situations with absolutely no evidence is bizarre. Karanka, Gibson or others may have their say in future and it may shed light on why some things happened, or contradict some of what Downing says… but until then how do we not know that the players went to Gibson and said Downing keeps doing eggy boffs in the changing rooms? How do we not know if Downing nicked Aitors last piece of parmo in the canteen, the crispy bit he’d been saving til last?
jonny_greenings_sock
Well-known member
Yes, and it's funny, because it wasn't like that QPR squad that got relegated which was full of obvious mercenaries.
The only obvious bad apples were Gaston Ramirez and Victor Valdes.
Negredo, probably the biggest name in the squad actually played well, worked hard and as far as I remember got loads of praise from the likes of Leadbitter for integrating. Barragan and that awful centre back were just useless players, didn't seem like bad lads exactly. De Roon, Fischer, Adama, Stuani aren't mercenaries, the first two aren't even Spanish
You can imagine how easy a divide would appear though with half the squad and all the coaching staff Spanish speakers, and the other half English lads. Surprised Wolves get away with it, although they've pretty much gone full Portuguese.
r00fie1
Well-known member
Karanka wasnt so professional when he left the team in the schit at Charlton after chucking his toys out the pram.
As Stewy explains - at one point we were 10 points clear at the top, when the rot set in and the team started to fall apart.
That didnt happen because Stewart liked his eggs fried, not boiled.
Which Manager storms out and what does that say to his players?
When he was sacked after less than a season in charge at Brum and when he walked away from Forest - there are echoes of some of the sentiments which stewy has expressed.[They cant all be making it up .....?]
Here`s what Colin Fray [BBC Radio Nottingham] had to say about his exit from Forest:
It seems there's been some falling-out and disagreements behind the scenes, and this has been speculated on in public since Boxing Day, when it was our understanding he was on the brink of going at that point.
He's held on for another 10 days or so before it has come to a head over the past couple of days.
Exactly what the disagreements are about is unclear but it's been fairly obvious for a month or so before Christmas that Karanka wasn't entirely happy with life at the City Ground.
As Stewy explains - at one point we were 10 points clear at the top, when the rot set in and the team started to fall apart.
That didnt happen because Stewart liked his eggs fried, not boiled.
Which Manager storms out and what does that say to his players?
When he was sacked after less than a season in charge at Brum and when he walked away from Forest - there are echoes of some of the sentiments which stewy has expressed.[They cant all be making it up .....?]
Here`s what Colin Fray [BBC Radio Nottingham] had to say about his exit from Forest:
It seems there's been some falling-out and disagreements behind the scenes, and this has been speculated on in public since Boxing Day, when it was our understanding he was on the brink of going at that point.
He's held on for another 10 days or so before it has come to a head over the past couple of days.
Exactly what the disagreements are about is unclear but it's been fairly obvious for a month or so before Christmas that Karanka wasn't entirely happy with life at the City Ground.
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futureboy
Well-known member
Yes, and it's funny, because it wasn't like that QPR squad that got relegated which was full of obvious mercenaries.
The only obvious bad apples were Gaston Ramirez and Victor Valdes.
Negredo, probably the biggest name in the squad actually played well, worked hard and as far as I remember got loads of praise from the likes of Leadbitter for integrating. Barragan and that awful centre back were just useless players, didn't seem like bad lads exactly. De Roon, Fischer, Adama, Stuani aren't mercenaries, the first two aren't even Spanish
You can imagine how easy a divide would appear though with half the squad and all the coaching staff Spanish speakers, and the other half English lads. Surprised Wolves get away with it, although they've pretty much gone full Portuguese.
I can't quite tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my post, but either way it's good to discuss!
I'd say the main mercenaries who joined at that time were Valdes, Barragan, Espinosa, Fischer. Had probably never heard of Boro before they joined, and presumably the ones who couldn't wait to get away once the season was done. I wonder which one(s) Downing meant when he said they were trying to get permission to fly home with a couple of games still left to go. We also had Chambers, who was on loan from a big club and therefore wasn't going to live or die by whether or not Boro stayed up. And of course we all know about Gaston.
Anyway - let's hope we make a better effort of it if/when we ever get promoted again. UTB
Glover_elbow
Well-known member
its not the fact they were spanish and i dont necessarily think they were mercenaries which made us fail, it was simply they wernt good enough. Barragan and Espinosa in particular were terrible footballers the fact they were Spanish has fook all to do with it.
Colin Warnek
Well-known member
Bernardo was Colombian, seemed a decent enough bloke on Twitter but not PL standard.
Getting rid of Nsue for Barragan was a crock of sh!te.
parmoboy
Well-known member
Downing said that the Spanish lads wanted to go home and didn't want to play the last few games.
Interesting to look at the team we put out vs Southampton for the final game. No Barragan or Valdes of course but Negredo started, which suggests to me he wasn't part of the Spanish clique.
Interesting to look at the team we put out vs Southampton for the final game. No Barragan or Valdes of course but Negredo started, which suggests to me he wasn't part of the Spanish clique.
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futureboy
Well-known member
Absolutely agree - and I hope my previous posts didn't give the impression that I thought otherwise. I used the phrase "Spanish lads" in inverted commas because that's how Downing described them, and I did mention a couple of others too.
I guess most footballers are mercenaries really, sad as it is to say. We've had foreign and domestic players who have loved the club and put their heart and soul into helping us achieve success, and also plenty of foreign and domestic players who couldn't give a toss about Boro one way or the other and have jumped ship as soon as possible. I'd suggest that the players I've named are in the latter category, and Parmoboy's post above this one would suggest that Barragan and Valdes in particular were bad eggs.