Steve Gibson's fmttm Q and A - Thursday

[Humpty]

It's hard to say for me but I didn't find the evening uplifting.
Not because of Steve Gibson's answers, or my perception of his commitment, or my reaction to his communication style.
Just a sadness that football finances are now structured in such a horrendous way that clubs like ours seemingly have to have so many unlikely things align to squeeze into a promotional slot.

Given your self confessed expertise in football accounting, I find it strange that you expected anything less.

 

[Steve Bee]

Well how did you expect it to land FFS - ridiculous question and bu99er all to do with you unless you're going to make him an offer

Valid question surely. The guy is getting on

 

[indeedido]

The actual bid wasn't substantial enough in any case not so much for Gibson but in terms of what we might expect..
I think the point is why would a new owner continue to commit to pour in the funds year upon year? What would they get back from their continued investment if the Premier dream started to fade?

Steve Gibson has in the past cited the Coates family at Stoke. Local owners, incredibly wealthy. Yet their club could actually get relegated.

We don't know the deal offered by the Chinese, he has never disclosed it and did not detail it on thursday night at all.

Potential new owners are not all the same.
Any new owner however would want to pay the least they can for control.
It is true that some would be hoping to do what Gibson is trying to do and squeeze into the Prem, then spend little to stay there. It is easy to see such an owner tiring quickly of funding losses in the Prem and then inevitable big losses in the Championship. There is then an existential risk quickly developing.

However, it is also possible that new owners can see more potential in Middlesbrough FC than I believe Gibson does, invest more heavily in a squad to get up and stay up, with the club then becoming financially secure. It is possible to see different leadership doing better.

Crucial to me are competence, ambition and financial muscle.
New owners might have all three, they might have none.
Exactly the same applies to existing owners.

The Coates family at Stoke certainly have the ambition and financial muscle but clearly lack competence. They have not made the top half in the Championship since being relegated six years ago after disastrous player recruitment in the prem created massive debt.
Tony Bloom at Brighton has all three in spades. You don't have to be a nation state, but its very hard as a moderately wealthy individual.
It comes down to opinion where you see Steve Gibson at Middlesbrough.
I understand why some people think there is no possible better alternative. They over-estimate Gibson and/ or fear we end up with a Birmingham fiasco.
I believe Gibson is committed to the club, but only if he is in absolute control. My biggest frustration with him is not over his wealth, or what he has put in; he can provide the funding within FFP to get the club up.
My concern is over competence given the record since 2009 and his acceptance of prolonged Championship status so long as he has control.

I think Steve thinks only he can own and operate the club. I don't think he can accept anybody else doing it.
He is entitled to think so and experience the consequences of absolute power given his resources and capability.

As I have long argued, unless somebody emerges that wants to take the club on, and can pass Gibson's quite particular criteria/be deemed worthy to sell to, then frankly we are stuck where we are and with each other.
Sadly for me that means a stubborn defensive bloke pouring the millions he can afford into a club drifting around in the Championship.
It is better than a lot of clubs will have, but I do personally think our club can be more.
His approach on thursday night re-inforced my view of him. Happy to be asked about his favourite memories, happy to explain the obvious financial pressures, happy to accept the acclaim, happy to criticise others; not so happy to be challenged, however gently.

I maintain I applaud him for thursday night and hope he continues the dialogue with supporters and overall it was a successful event - hats off Rob as I originally posted.

 

[indeedido]

Given your self confessed expertise in football accounting, I find it strange that you expected anything less.

Self confessed expertise - where have I ever said I am an expert on anything?

 

[1finny]

We don't know the deal offered by the Chinese, he has never disclosed it and did not detail it on thursday night at all.

Potential new owners are not all the same.
Any new owner however would want to pay the least they can for control.
It is true that some would be hoping to do what Gibson is trying to do and squeeze into the Prem, then spend little to stay there. It is easy to see such an owner tiring quickly of funding losses in the Prem and then inevitable big losses in the Championship. There is then an existential risk quickly developing.

However, it is also possible that new owners can see more potential in Middlesbrough FC than I believe Gibson does, invest more heavily in a squad to get up and stay up, with the club then becoming financially secure. It is possible to see different leadership doing better.

Crucial to me are competence, ambition and financial muscle.
New owners might have all three, they might have none.
Exactly the same applies to existing owners.

The Coates family at Stoke certainly have the ambition and financial muscle but clearly lack competence. They have not made the top half in the Championship since being relegated six years ago after disastrous player recruitment in the prem created massive debt.
Tony Bloom at Brighton has all three in spades. You don't have to be a nation state, but its very hard as a moderately wealthy individual.
It comes down to opinion where you see Steve Gibson at Middlesbrough.
I understand why some people think there is no possible better alternative. They over-estimate Gibson and/ or fear we end up with a Birmingham fiasco.
I believe Gibson is committed to the club, but only if he is in absolute control. My biggest frustration with him is not over his wealth, or what he has put in; he can provide the funding within FFP to get the club up.
My concern is over competence given the record since 2009 and his acceptance of prolonged Championship status so long as he has control.

I think Steve thinks only he can own and operate the club. I don't think he can accept anybody else doing it.
He is entitled to think so and experience the consequences of absolute power given his resources and capability.

As I have long argued, unless somebody emerges that wants to take the club on, and can pass Gibson's quite particular criteria/be deemed worthy to sell to, then frankly we are stuck where we are and with each other.
Sadly for me that means a stubborn defensive bloke pouring the millions he can afford into a club drifting around in the Championship.
It is better than a lot of clubs will have, but I do personally think our club can be more.
His approach on thursday night re-inforced my view of him. Happy to be asked about his favourite memories, happy to explain the obvious financial pressures, happy to accept the acclaim, happy to criticise others; not so happy to be challenged, however gently.

I maintain I applaud him for thursday night and hope he continues the dialogue with supporters and overall it was a successful event - hats off Rob as I originally posted.

Really enjoyed reading that.

 

[Corco65]

We don't know the deal offered by the Chinese, he has never disclosed it and did not detail it on thursday night at all.

Potential new owners are not all the same.
Any new owner however would want to pay the least they can for control.
It is true that some would be hoping to do what Gibson is trying to do and squeeze into the Prem, then spend little to stay there. It is easy to see such an owner tiring quickly of funding losses in the Prem and then inevitable big losses in the Championship. There is then an existential risk quickly developing.

However, it is also possible that new owners can see more potential in Middlesbrough FC than I believe Gibson does, invest more heavily in a squad to get up and stay up, with the club then becoming financially secure. It is possible to see different leadership doing better.

Crucial to me are competence, ambition and financial muscle.
New owners might have all three, they might have none.
Exactly the same applies to existing owners.

The Coates family at Stoke certainly have the ambition and financial muscle but clearly lack competence. They have not made the top half in the Championship since being relegated six years ago after disastrous player recruitment in the prem created massive debt.
Tony Bloom at Brighton has all three in spades. You don't have to be a nation state, but its very hard as a moderately wealthy individual.
It comes down to opinion where you see Steve Gibson at Middlesbrough.
I understand why some people think there is no possible better alternative. They over-estimate Gibson and/ or fear we end up with a Birmingham fiasco.
I believe Gibson is committed to the club, but only if he is in absolute control. My biggest frustration with him is not over his wealth, or what he has put in; he can provide the funding within FFP to get the club up.
My concern is over competence given the record since 2009 and his acceptance of prolonged Championship status so long as he has control.

I think Steve thinks only he can own and operate the club. I don't think he can accept anybody else doing it.
He is entitled to think so and experience the consequences of absolute power given his resources and capability.

As I have long argued, unless somebody emerges that wants to take the club on, and can pass Gibson's quite particular criteria/be deemed worthy to sell to, then frankly we are stuck where we are and with each other.
Sadly for me that means a stubborn defensive bloke pouring the millions he can afford into a club drifting around in the Championship.
It is better than a lot of clubs will have, but I do personally think our club can be more.
His approach on thursday night re-inforced my view of him. Happy to be asked about his favourite memories, happy to explain the obvious financial pressures, happy to accept the acclaim, happy to criticise others; not so happy to be challenged, however gently.

I maintain I applaud him for thursday night and hope he continues the dialogue with supporters and overall it was a successful event - hats off Rob as I originally posted.

Of course there are other ways the club could be run or different decisions made, it's all about opinions and perspectives. It seems you would like to gamble with a new owner which is fine thats your view, a lot of people are happy to stick with the man who has provided the club with huge success compared to before his involvement. The success which he was at the heart of, is then used against him by the those with entitled expectations of where we should be. That's not how it works unless you are one of the super wealthy clubs who basically buy their success or the very occasional outlier for the odd season or so, there are no guarantees when money is pumped in. I'm grateful that someone has wanted to gamble with their millions for as long as they have, and I certainly don't expect some else to come in and gamble/waste even more.

 

[18MFC76]

5. He was very much on the front foot about ticket pricing. Cheaper kids would mean even more expensive adults. He is very determined to get £10m from tickets next season, so with fewer renewals it will mean there will be hikes to walk ups.

Hikes to walk ups? Crazy really given the fact that they're already sky high. He needs to remember that a lot more games are going to be televised next season. He could end up losing revenue on both fronts (SC and walk up) if he's not careful.

 

[Nano]

Of course there are other ways the club could be run or different decisions made, it's all about opinions and perspectives. It seems you would like to gamble with a new owner which is fine thats your view, a lot of people are happy to stick with the man who has provided the club with huge success compared to before his involvement. The success which he was at the heart of, is then used against him by the those with entitled expectations of where we should be. That's not how it works unless you are one of the super wealthy clubs who basically buy their success or the very occasional outlier for the odd season or so, there are no guarantees when money is pumped in. I'm grateful that someone has wanted to gamble with their millions for as long as they have, and I certainly don't expect some else to come in and gamble/waste even more.

That success was 20 years ago. It's a completely different game these days and he's still running the club like one in the 90s. Smaller clubs than us have overtaken us by being more professional/strategic and the teams that were similar to us or bigger have just got further away.

Our success came from outspending other teams. We can't do that anymore and since the goalposts moved and he was no longer rich enough to compete financially we have had no success. Our only small bit of success in those years is when he got outside help from Kenyon. Any other time where he's been the only one making decisions has gone nowhere.

I don't think we need a new owner but we need new ideas and we need to be more professional. The answer to being rubbish at marketing because we can't afford better marketing is nonsense. You get out what you put in. It's not about just spending money, it's investing in things that will generate income in the long run. The way he runs the merchandise side of things, ticket prices etc all smacks of really basic short-term thinking.

 

[1finny]

That success was 20 years ago. It's a completely different game these days and he's still running the club like one in the 90s. Smaller clubs than us have overtaken us by being more professional/strategic and the teams that were similar to us or bigger have just got further away.

Our success came from outspending other teams. We can't do that anymore and since the goalposts moved and he was no longer rich enough to compete financially we have had no success. Our only small bit of success in those years is when he got outside help from Kenyon. Any other time where he's been the only one making decisions has gone nowhere.

I don't think we need a new owner but we need new ideas and we need to be more professional. The answer to being rubbish at marketing because we can't afford better marketing is nonsense. You get out what you put in. It's not about just spending money, it's investing in things that will generate income in the long run. The way he runs the merchandise side of things, ticket prices etc all smacks of really basic short-term thinking.

That’s a fair way to look at things.

Surely it’s also fair to question/think about what needs to happen to move the club forward.
There is presumably common ground on the playing front that for 15 years or so we have, at best, bumbled around championship mediocrity.

Couple that with a pricing policy which seems to take advantage of a committed set of fans whilst alienating others.

On that basis it seems fair to look for somethings to change.
It could be, as Nano has said, ‘new ideas’ or it could be more transformational with a change of ownership.

The reality is - it doesn’t matter a jot what the fans/community think.
Other than to have a conversation and share views on here..

 

[fmttmadmin]

Hikes to walk ups? Crazy really given the fact that they're already sky high. He needs to remember that a lot more games are going to be televised next season. He could end up losing revenue on both fronts (SC and walk up) if he's not careful.

Am not sure you will see massive price rises.

 

[Backofthenet]

If Mr Gibson thinks an english flag will be flying over the stadium in terms of investors/new owners then he is misguided. Reality is most clubs are foreign owned so beggars cant be choosers if he wants to sell the club for good money in the future. He might be patriotic but some might call it parochial. His apparent views on thinking twice about employing a future foreign manager reflects this too.

Not a fan of our chairman by any chance?