newyddion
Well-known member
Because he back tracked on BrexitA lot of people I speak to say Corbyn was a reason not to vote Labour. It might free them up to do so now he is gone from the party.
Because he back tracked on BrexitA lot of people I speak to say Corbyn was a reason not to vote Labour. It might free them up to do so now he is gone from the party.
Totally agree ; we need to nullify those Tory barstewards and play a straight bat to get into government because otherwise this country will be finished completely (if it isn't already - which I think it virtually is) It's going to need back to back Labour victories to somehow salvage the soul of this country back....with some solid financial management and slowly bring the NHS back to life alongside public services and reign in the big corporates who are literally choking this country with the help of Sunak and co...It will cause a bit of a ruck
But
Starmer has laid out the logic - with Starmer endorsed it diminishes the chances of a Labour win.
I probably agree with him on that.
Others won’t but - at least we understand.
As for JC - he can stand as an independent will get elected and continue to do what he does.
Turning into the Tories isn't nullifying them, it's nullifying Labour.Totally agree ; we need to nullify those Tory barstewards and play a straight bat to get into government because otherwise this country will be finished completely (if it isn't already - which I think it virtually is) It's going to need back to back Labour victories to somehow salvage the soul of this country back....with some solid financial management and slowly bring the NHS back to life alongside public services and reign in the big corporates who are literally choking this country with the help of Sunak and co...
Because he back tracked on Brexit
Which bit of this are you expecting Starmer to do?Totally agree ; we need to nullify those Tory barstewards and play a straight bat to get into government because otherwise this country will be finished completely (if it isn't already - which I think it virtually is) It's going to need back to back Labour victories to somehow salvage the soul of this country back....with some solid financial management and slowly bring the NHS back to life alongside public services and reign in the big corporates who are literally choking this country with the help of Sunak and co...
We need a bit of trust in him I’d argueWhich bit of this are you expecting Starmer to do?
How can we trust a man for whom lying comes so easy?We need a bit of trust in him I’d argue
So they were happy with Boris Johnson and you now want us to trust that they'll do something sensible despite all evidence to the contrary?Na, it's cos of the hatchet job the media did on him.
Which was reinforced by the words and actions of Labour MPsNa, it's cos of the hatchet job the media did on him.
I agree, I think the middle is defined by the custom and practice of the people in the country as much as anything.The average position of the people dictates and defines where the centre position is, it's impossible for this to not be the case. You can put your party where you like, but if you don't get the centre guys, you lose.
The middle does move from side to side, 1/3rd of that time it's Labour, 2/3 it's Tory, it's right weighted, you can't balance that out by being further left as you win 0/3 and the Tories win 3/3.
I absolutely detest that this is the way it is, but that's the way it is, it's purely a mathematical fact and always will be when we're counting votes (assuming seats are similar to votes). It's also a mathematical fact that the guy sat in the middle, who can pick either side is the most important vote, is this vote sways elections more than any other. The Tories don't need right votes, and Labour don't need the left votes, they both need the centre votes, otherwise there's no point to it.
The media influences the average position of the people.
Age influences the average position of the people.
Wealth influences the average position of the people.
The media influences this position, and is heavily weighted to influencing the old, who vote, and who mostly have wealth (than young folk).
Wages influence the position, people think that because they earn 30k they're middle class, and some of them are daft enough to Vote Tory, thinking they're getting good value from it. Anyone earning 100k would be luck to get value form the Tories, but people don't see it.
Having control for a long time enables you to move seat boundaries, further making it harder for the other side, this is another problem Labour have and they're going to have to undo this when they get in power again.
He was an easy target due to his past associations with groups regarded as terrorists, it was easy for the Tory propagandists to get at him for this alone, regardless of any good intentions.Which was reinforced by the words and actions of Labour MPs
He was targeted by MPs in his own party.. that was the issue. It’s an easy cop out to blame the press, but that nonsense was backed up and elaborated by Labour’s right wing.He was an easy target due to his past associations with groups regarded as terrorists, it was easy for the Tory propagandists to get at him for this alone, regardless of any good intentions.
Once he was out from under the radar in 2017 as a big Labour vote machine they knew which lines of attack to take.
I agree a number of Labour MPs didn’t help at all but I’m not convinced the average voter takes too much notice of all that stuff - look how chronically divided the Tories were going into 2019.He was targeted by MPs in his own party.. that was the issue. It’s an easy cop out to blame the press, but that nonsense was backed up and elaborated by Labour’s right wing.
all of that stuff was bad and it probably swayed a few voters who were on the fence.. but the difference was made and the seats were lost with thisI agree a number of Labour MPs didn’t help at all but I’m not convinced the average voter takes too much notice of all that stuff - look how chronically divided the Tories were going into 2019.
In my opinion it’s the sound bites the Sun and Mail churned out about the IRA and the PLO that resonated and all the Jewish stuff which meant they could portray him as some kind of anti patriotic racist terrorist. Don’t forget the Tory candidates repeating this on the doorstep.
Unfortunately it does enough to turn on the doubt in enough voters minds to make a difference.
Yes I agree the policy was wrong, maybe Labour MPs were still in denial about the referendum result, Brexit definitely got Johnson over the line. My comments above were more about the difference between Corbyn 2017 and 2019.all of that stuff was bad and it probably swayed a few voters who were on the fence.. but the difference was made and the seats were lost with this
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likes of Dr Paul Williams coming out to say he would campaign against his constituents.. this was true of many leave areas and the reason the red wall was lost to the tories.
Brexit was the be all snd end all of the 2019 election and the time in between the right had to concoct a plan to undermine the party finally stumbling on the anti semitism lie which the very worst of the party used and continue to use to keep the status quo.Yes I agree the policy was wrong, maybe Labour MPs were still in denial about the referendum result, Brexit definitely got Johnson over the line. My comments above were more about the difference between Corbyn 2017 and 2019.
That said I can imagine a lot of Labour voters will not be happy with the current treatment of Corbyn regardless of its political motivations, I voted for him and always thought his heart was in the right place.
So they were happy with Boris Johnson and you now want us to trust that they'll do something sensible despite all evidence to the contrary?