Southgate on three managers programme

It's a stupid point either way tbh. Karanka clearly had input on transfers. There's no way the club signed Kike, Kike Sola, Traore, Espinosa, Barragan all just coincidentally while AK was in charge. So to me it's obviously wrong to say our managers aren't involved in signing players.

And then on from that, even if you're generous about it and assume that (despite being well involved in most transfers) sometimes some players get signed by Boro without the manager having any say or any clue about it beforehand - that's not some great mitigating point in Southgate or Karanka's favour.

If Southgate genuinely didn't want Alves why was he touring him round the stadium? Why didn't he speak up about it months earlier when we were linked with Alves all the previous summer. Alves was discussed as a target on here for about a full year before the signing finally happened. If I as a daft kid at uni knew we were in for him how could Southgate as manager not?

And if Karanka genuinely stropped about us signing an England international while in the championship from day 1 just cause he wasn't the one to choose him for a list of transfer targets then he's a f*cking idiot and it just proves all the worst rumours about his man-management.

You're never going to convince Col on this one, trust me I've tried! I think we've just agreed to disagree on it.

I think Karanka agreed to every signing but that probably for some he was less enthusiastic about it than others.

Re: Downing, I don't think he's said he's ever categorically been told AK didn't want him. He's just inferred it from their relationship.

DOWNING ON… Signing for Karanka

“As soon as I walked through the door, it didn’t feel right. I just didn’t feel welcome.

“I remember going on that first Marbella pre-season trip and saying to my Dad ‘It’s not right but I have already signed.’

“He said: ‘It’s too late. Five years!’ I had to get my head down.

“I don’t know if it was a problem me being around. The manager has obviously given the go-ahead to sign me but the chairman obviously wanted me to come back.
 
For one reason or another the full interview has been deemed unavailable for replaying on Tees unfortunately. He absolutely said more than the snippets you posted there was more said. I am well aware fans are split. Southgate is honourable and despite what newusername thinks his reasons were, I think he is far more truthful. I know what I heard Downing say, it was much clearer than the quotes you posted. Shame Tees took it down.
 
For one reason or another the full interview has been deemed unavailable for replaying on Tees unfortunately. He absolutely said more than the snippets you posted there was more said. I am well aware fans are split. Southgate is honourable and despite what newusername thinks his reasons were, I think he is far more truthful. I know what I heard Downing say, it was much clearer than the quotes you posted. Shame Tees took it down.

Clearer than "The manager has obviously given the go-ahead to sign me?" 😉

But as I say, I think agree to disagree on this one! But would like to hear the full interview if you ever come across it.
 
It's a stupid excuse anyway. Signing Alves isn't what got us relegated in 2009. The problem was replacing Cattermole, Morrison, Boateng and Rochemback as the options in CM with Digard, Matty Bates and a 1 legged Julio Arca. Alves showed he was up to it in his first half season where he was scoring goals.
Southgate was an awful manager for us, he done well for the 1st 2 seasons due to the core of McClaren team, once we kicked off at home to Spurs in our weak relegation season he was quoted as saying, now judge me this is my team, we were awful that season & he was the one who brought Alves to the club
 
Clearer than "The manager has obviously given the go-ahead to sign me?" 😉

But as I say, I think agree to disagree on this one! But would like to hear the full interview if you ever come across it.

I noticed in the Gazette there is a quote that says “I should have left after that first season as he did not want me there” Now you can spin that particular quote several ways, i accept based on timing, but Downing knew he was not wanted and the famous Gill article stated the head coach had to “sign off” on all transfers, that can easily be a mere contractual requirement. I understand why some see things one way and some another. Karanka implied it Southgate stated it. Woodgate clearly stated his presentation included bringing in Bola, Djiksteel and Browne. No way has were they his Personal input and the club went along, not having it, they were the clubs to fit the new model. But yes lets agree to differ (y)
 
It's a stupid point either way tbh. Karanka clearly had input on transfers. There's no way the club signed Kike, Kike Sola, Traore, Espinosa, Barragan all just coincidentally while AK was in charge. So to me it's obviously wrong to say our managers aren't involved in signing players.

And then on from that, even if you're generous about it and assume that (despite being well involved in most transfers) sometimes some players get signed by Boro without the manager having any say or any clue about it beforehand - that's not some great mitigating point in Southgate or Karanka's favour.

If Southgate genuinely didn't want Alves why was he touring him round the stadium? Why didn't he speak up about it months earlier when we were linked with Alves all the previous summer. Alves was discussed as a target on here for about a full year before the signing finally happened. If I as a daft kid at uni knew we were in for him how could Southgate as manager not?

And if Karanka genuinely stropped about us signing an England international while in the championship from day 1 just cause he wasn't the one to choose him for a list of transfer targets then he's a f*cking idiot and it just proves all the worst rumours about his man-management.

I don't think there was ever a suggestion that AK "stropped" about the signing but it was also clearly a Gibson signing. Downing proved poor value for money so I'd say AKs judgement wasn't far off. As for the man management you can look two ways at it, there was the Charlton issue, but the team spirit was also better than at any other time in the previous 8 years or so.
 
It isn't just Alves. It's Morrison for O'Neill. It's replacing Cattermole Boateng and Rocky with a man who had spent the previous season injured and only had one top flight season under his belt. And then beyond the transfer strategy it's losing 5 0 at home to our supposed rivals. The transfer dealings at the Boro are done by a team as they are everywhere else. You cant absolve the manager of blame nor give him full credit.
I just don't think Southgate is daft enough to say yes to managing a team he would have no say in shaping the squad.

if there's one manager who was unlucky to be sacked I think it was mowbray. Lumbered with expensive dross, had us near the top with a bunch of freebies and league one players. Even got a tune out of emnes. The players we signed in the years during and immediately following Mowbrays reign stand out like diamonds in a sea of *****. But he made a couple of poor buys in juke and that malaria bloke and we went into a tailspin.

im hopeful that we might give Mowbray a director of football role at the club in the future. He left the club in far better shape player wise than any other manager we've had in recent years.
 
Sherriff, that Is partly my point, I am not suggesting the head coach has no say, never have. I am suggesting that the head coach will occasionally get overruled by the recruitment committee on certain players and get some they did not want, hence AK and his gifts comment. Southgate, if you believe him, and I do, said he did not sign Alves, I take that to mean he felt he was not the right player and wanted someone else most likely. Some of the ones you mention may have been his choices. It would seem plausible given the Downing comments too, Karankas various comments over the years, that sometimes they have to work with players they felt were not right and it is they that carry the can for the decision of others on some signings, clearly not all obviously, so they distance. For me every departure or incoming should be the managers final say, nobody elses, obviously subject to price, wages, agents fees etc which they clearly have no part of.
 
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