bear66
Well-known member
As the Swedish PM said in response to the official review that's about to start, it's not whether Sweden will change, but how.
Simon Dolan Court Hearing
- Thread starter Randy
- Start date
Alvez_48
Well-known member
In reference to their care homes bear. Swedens well over the situation and has been for a couple of weeks you should check out the meanwhile in Sweden thread.
Denmark is at the start of their epidemic..
States in the US that have locked down early have then had lots of cases when they reopen.
Flattening the curve still has the same outcome over a different timeframe.
It's fine though because now you have police being routinely attacked by people going to raves, deep social unrest, a wave of redundancies that hasn't even started, ridiculous legislation that makes it impossible for a business to make money even when they're told to reopen....
Denmark is at the start of their epidemic..
States in the US that have locked down early have then had lots of cases when they reopen.
Flattening the curve still has the same outcome over a different timeframe.
It's fine though because now you have police being routinely attacked by people going to raves, deep social unrest, a wave of redundancies that hasn't even started, ridiculous legislation that makes it impossible for a business to make money even when they're told to reopen....
bear66
Well-known member
I didn't mention their care homes. I was referencing their review. A quote from their prime minister:
Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.
"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.
"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."
Let's hope they do learn from this . . . as I hope we will as well. Only a handful of countries can say they have probably got their response right.
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Jonny Ingbar
Well-known member
I'm staggered that anyone thinks the lockdown was a mistake? How so, given it saved many, many lives?
If criticisms are to be levelled then it was the 'herd immunity' policy, followed by unnecessary delay into full lockdown.
It seems to me that the people arguing against lockdown are more worried about the economy than the loss of life.
The economy will recover, sadly many infected people haven't and won't.
If criticisms are to be levelled then it was the 'herd immunity' policy, followed by unnecessary delay into full lockdown.
It seems to me that the people arguing against lockdown are more worried about the economy than the loss of life.
The economy will recover, sadly many infected people haven't and won't.
Muttley
Well-known member
A perfect example of reading the words and not understanding the meaning. Without "flattening the curve" the influx of serious cases would have been such as to overwhelm intensive care provision, doctors choosing who goes on a ventilator and who dies, who gets to die in a corridor or in a tent in a Military Hospital staffed by people with no PPE. Mass graves, burial by bulldozer?
For an example of how it could have been done better you only have to look at Ireland.
Alvez_48
Well-known member
No hospitals were overwhelmed at any point before lockdown the peak had passed before lockdown begun.
Lockdowns are a brute force instrument that are not effective over a long term.
Alvez_48
Well-known member
No evidence that lockdown has saved lives in the UK, evidence that our policies of shutting down all other NHS functions have cost lives, as well as sending elderly back to care homes whilst still infectious. You keep mistaking that not locking down = doing nothing, this is clearly incorrect.
Anyway don't want to de-rail the thread any longer, as you were.
Muttley
Well-known member
No evidence that you want to see, apparently. Plenty of evidence that locking down sooner would have reduced the death toll both directly and indirectly from COVID. You seem to be looking for evidence to fit your opinion (not an uncommon trait to be fair) that isn't how science works.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
They usually 'follow the money' in this country.
Jonny Ingbar
Well-known member
You really believe there's no evidence that it saved lives? I'm astounded that anyone can believe this, given the abundance of evidence available.
Alvez_48
Well-known member
Please provide said evidence that the lockdown in the UK has saved lives.. just repeating how passionately you believe something doesn't count.
Just look at places that locked down super early like Australia they now have cases everytime they open, they will unfortunately face permanent lockdown or hope for a vaccine. Even new Zealand which is literally in the middle of nowhere with a tiny population density is struggling to control the situation despite travel quarantine.
I don't think the UK have done well but there were far better solutions than have been followed.
The fall out of the actions is just beginning, in 5 years the true picture will emerge and it will be really hard and a really sad time.
Randy
Well-known member
Im still curious as to why this country won't release figures of those who have had covid-19 in hospital and have recovered and been released home.
Same can be applied to those who had a moderate illness in other settings.
Hopefully Mr Dolan's legal team ask for this through the court system.
Same can be applied to those who had a moderate illness in other settings.
Hopefully Mr Dolan's legal team ask for this through the court system.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
Not all of those who contracted the disease will have been either tested or seen a GP. The majority will have phoned 111 and isolated as per their instructions.
There will be no figures for them.
There will be no figures for them.
Randy
Well-known member
Good point. Those who tested positive but didn't require hospital treatment you would think would be followed up on.
Plus Johnson said weeks ago they would release figures of this recovered but it's never happened.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
The majority haven't been tested, that includes those who called 111 in the early days and through the peak.
Test numbers look higher now but how many of those tests are the same people being re-tested?
There will be no figures in the UK worthy of analysis, we really have been that poor with regards to monitoring.
Alvez_48
Well-known member
This is 100% true..
There's the growing evidence that t cell response in the majority of cases is enough so you don't even get antibodies, none of those included.
Our figures aren't worth the screen they're typed into.
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