Shamima Begum

zzzzz said:
I've linked it twice in this thread. Stop being so stupid.
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You never sent the link, you posted it on pages 2 and 4. Stupid.

It’s the one where she backtracks a little.

2019, she understands IS, knows they cut innocent peoples heads off and was comfortable with that

She is then refused entry

2021, At the time I did not know it was a death cult, I thought it was an Islamic community I was joining," she added.

She is full of ****. **** her and her ideology
 
BaronSmoggie said:
Its not that black and white though. Shemima joined a terrorist organisation that was known to kill thousands of people, but she herself did not (as far as I know) kill anyone. The JB killers actively went out looking to torture someone and poor James ended up in the firing line.

The JB killers needed the same support Shemima does, neither of them got it and ultimately both made bad decisions because of it. JB's killers get very little empathy because they actively went looking to kill, Shemima didn't. She wanted to join ISIS for a better life and the brainwashing that went with it, she wasn't an active participant in the deaths.

I know that sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but there is an incredible amount of nuance and context that needs to be considered when making comparisons like this.
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No that’s a perfectly valid argument and not splitting hairs. If we can say for certain it’s as you describe then yes they are two very different cases.

If it is found that she actively took part in killings then I think we have a better comparison of sorts.
 
Redka said:
I agree with your second paragraph.
We maybe further apart on what crimes she has committed and the sympathy towards her. She was a member of ISIS and we can say on the balance of probability she’s probably been involved in some pretty horrific stuff. I’m less forgiving of that.
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How do we determine the balance of probability without a trial?
 
Redka said:
No that’s a perfectly valid argument and not splitting hairs. If we can say for certain it’s as you describe then yes they are two very different cases.

If it is found that she actively took part in killings then I think we have a better comparison of sorts.
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Agreed
 
Facefuzz said:
For those who made mistakes when they were younger, including me.

Has anybody ever ran away and joined a terrorist organisation? It’s a biggy
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If she's committed these horrible things then surely those who have been victims of her require justice and closure?

Is this justice?
 
It would be justice if she came back and went to jail, of course it would.
I’d just rather she never came back.
 
Facefuzz said:
For those who made mistakes when they were younger, including me.

Has anybody ever ran away and joined a terrorist organisation? It’s a biggy
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I don't think that's the point. Whether she's ran over a hedgehog or planted a bomb on London bridge, she has the right to a fair trial.

To make matters worse, a British citizen is being revoked of her nationality and supposedly now becomes Bangladeshi (despite probably having never been to Bangladesh in her life) and is dumped into another third world country suffering from its own problems.

The whole thing is a farce and reflects badly on us. She should have been taken in and dealt with, whether that's jail time or a rehabilitation program. The whole ordeal has been poorly handled and has a politician's dirty hands all over it.
 
Facefuzz said:
It would be justice if she came back and went to jail, of course it would.
I’d just rather she never came back.
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And what about all of the others that have been allowed back with the governments blessing? Why is the media so obsessed with this one girl? If it was up to me we'd strip Braverman of her citizenship. Sadly, it isn't up to me.
 
bumface said:
You are making a proper t*t of yourself on this thread.
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Because I disagree with you.
We live in such a tolerant society don’t we, until somebody has a different point of view to you and makes a valid point.

So far on this thread I’ve been called a t*t, stupid (twice) and a prejudice pr*ck, all for not wanting a terrorist sympathiser home. I’m not bothered of course because it’s keyboard talk and enough people like my replies to know they are valid.
 
bumface said:
And what about all of the others that have been allowed back with the governments blessing? Why is the media so obsessed with this one girl? If it was up to me we'd strip Braverman of her citizenship. Sadly, it isn't up to me.
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None should be allowed back.
The media are scummers.
Look at the way they dealt with the Nicola Bulley case.
Vermin.
 
Redka said:
takes pin from grenade and thinks ahh go on then…..

There is a lot of talk about grooming on this site she was 15 - for those convinced by the “she was groomed” theory do you share the same empathy for the James Bulger killers they were clearly influenced /groomed by adults in the atrocity they committed. I’m not sure there is a person taht doesn’t think they are monsters. However there are many here forgiving this woman because she was only a child , she was groomed etc. why don’t we afford them the same , they were much younger than Shenita begum.

Other countries would have treated the James bulger killers in a much different way, yet here they were tried as adults.

The Norway town that forgave and forgot its child killers | James Bulger murder | The Guardian

<p>In 1994, in Trondheim, five-year-old Silje Redergard was beaten to death by two little boys. Today, the girl's family still suffers and one of the boys is in trouble again – the echoes of the Bulger case are clear. So why has the public reaction in Norway been so startlingly different?</p>
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

Am very interested to hear the thoughts from those defending her on my question. Did we just fail in our duty to protect them?
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Someone else completely missing the point. It doesn't matter whether you have sympathy for her or not. She is our problem to deal with. She is a British citizen, born here and radicalised here.

We should deal with the problem.

You are all falling for a tory narrative designed to divide.

This is completely ignoring some of the vile comments which I find appalling.
 
Zain said:
I don't think that's the point. Whether she's ran over a hedgehog or planted a bomb on London bridge, she has the right to a fair trial.

To make matters worse, a British citizen is being revoked of her nationality and supposedly now becomes Bangladeshi (despite probably having never been to Bangladesh in her life) and is dumped into another third world country suffering from its own problems.

The whole thing is a farce and reflects badly on us. She should have been taken in and dealt with, whether that's jail time or a rehabilitation program. The whole ordeal has been poorly handled and has a politician's dirty hands all over it.
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No doubt they choose it to be a political issue, probably for somebody’s gain.
It’s not great she is now somebody else’s problem but I think it’s correct that she is no longer ours.
 
Muttley said:
Nope, you've got me there. When did that happen?

All I've seen you post is straight from the playbook of the Daily Mail and the other hate rags. You hate the media "scummers" but are happy to parrot their message. Try starting from basics and working your way from there.
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Ah, I get it. Different point to you so not valid.
Every media outlet in the world showed her interviews and reported on the case so not selective at all.
I dislike the mail the most, or maybe as equal as the sun and the bbc
 
Facefuzz said:
No doubt they choose it to be a political issue, probably for somebody’s gain.
It’s not great she is now somebody else’s problem but I think it’s correct that she is no longer ours.
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So, to clarify, whose problem should a British citizen be?
 
Facefuzz said:
Ah, I get it. Different point to you so not valid.
Every media outlet in the world showed her interviews and reported on the case so not selective at all.
I dislike the mail the most, or maybe as equal as the sun and the bbc
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You are a very silly sausage. There are quite a few silly sausages on this really depressing thread.
 
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