Shamima Begum wins right to return to UK

Laughing said:
Coluka, you and I argued the pro's and con's on another thread so I won't go into them here. What I will say is if she wins her case then that is right and proper under our legal system. I take your other points, obviously and no one would be happy with her returning to the country, but that doesn't mean you get to bypass the legal system
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Our legal system is a pile of **** and has been for a very long time.
No doubt she will work out some form of deal, she'll get a new identity, possibly a minimal custodial sentence to please the masses then be setup with a new home and continue to sponge off of the taxpayer for the rest of her privileged life.

Unfortunately if you served to protect this country and sacrificed your home, marriage and mental health and end up living rough on the streets you're at the back of queue behind ***** like this woman.
 
coluka said:
I know I am probably in the minority here, but if she is to be allowed back in, she should be held in a detention centre until her case is determined. If she wins her case, then she should be charged immediately with her crimes. This poor lass that many feel sorry for clearly made a cold calculated decision to become involved in terrorism. Her age does not mitigate her actions. She will cost this country millions, moving forward if she wins. More Jihadis will end up returning if she is allowed to remain. If 1 life is lost as a result of her or others directly or indirectly returning to the UK will this prove to be ‘acceptable justice’?

If she wins her case, it sends the message out that it is ok to go anywhere in the world and commit terror as you will always be welcomed back to the UK with our soft penal codes, maybe serve a bit of time in prison, then maybe be supported on benefits, maybe even given a tax payer funded home, its the least she deserves after all she has been through I guess, bless.

Eventually some poor souls will have to have her living next door to them with all the press attention and personal fear that that will bring. I sleep much easier knowing that we have a country that has boundaries to its freedoms and does not shelter terrorists. I really do not see why one penny of any of my taxes should be used to support such a wicked person. This is not just about the rights and freedoms of a young woman, it is about national security, the safety of the population and how safe the state can keep its people, this should carry a greater weighting. If she loses, and I sincerely hope she does, it will act as a deterrent to others, if she wins, I fear we will see more follow her pathway in future. That is not a country I want to live in.
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We already have the highest number of returning Jihadi fighters in Europe. I don't think this right to attend her appeal will have any affect on this, nor do I think the outcome of the appeal will.
 
Quite
RandySavage said:
Our legal system is a pile of **** and has been for a very long time.
No doubt she will work out some form of deal, she'll get a new identity, possibly a minimal custodial sentence to please the masses then be setup with a new home and continue to sponge off of the taxpayer for the rest of her privileged life.

Unfortunately if you served to protect this country and sacrificed your home, marriage and mental health and end up living rough on the streets you're at the back of queue behind ***** like this woman.
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Except this isn't just about our legal system. "We" tried to strip her of her British citizenship and this was appealed via the proper channels. How would you have approached this situation differently?
 
I find myself really torn on this. What she did was wrong, however her age massively muddies this.

She was groomed at the age of 15- the intricacies of what she was offered/ the life she was sold/ the conversations is unknown. As a standalone statement- does a minor who is groomed to do an activity willfully cooperate- or are they coerced?

The act of leaving the country to join a regime of hate is one I can not understand- i've never been in a position to have to understand it. She made the decision. She has to face the consequences of it. What are the consequences- do you treat her as a minor in court/ or treat the decisions made as those of an adult (I don't know how this works in court).

Then the citizenship- I just don't think any government can revoke that- bring her home and deal with the above. She is a British citizen who went abroad and broke the law. Own it. Let our judiciary do what it does. In the long run it would have been far cheaper than to go through the proceedings that will now follow I am sure.
 
Laughing said:
Coluka, you and I argued the pro's and con's on another thread so I won't go into them here. What I will say is if she wins her case then that is right and proper under our legal system. I take your other points, obviously and no one would be happy with her returning to the country, but that doesn't mean you get to bypass the legal system
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I do appreciate your point about the legal system. However, she can do this quite adequately from a detention centre If she must return. I sincerely hope the UK government do not fund her flight back mind. As for the legal system itself, It is far to soft imho. Begum herself is quoted saying she is not afraid of facing ‘British Justice‘. That phrase tells its own story for me, she knows there is nowhere else in the world that will treat her better and pay to keep her safe and secure for the rest of her life. If she wins, I hope the law is changed to stop a repeat.

Our own military lads and lasses will be shaking their heads in disbelief. I would prefer we looked after our own ex-military rather than those fighting for other nations or causes that want our way of living destroyed. Many of our ex forces are homeless, some with PTSD and because they are between 18-60 yrs old and don’t have dependent kids are often cast aside to suffer.
I accept Justice has to be seen to be done, it is just a shame the dead can’t cry out for justice as loud as the living can.
 
I imagine that the people who object to her return probably have no qualms about us sending foreign offenders back to where they came from. In this country she will have the right to a fair trial and then treated as we see fit, whether that's punishment, rehabilitation or a combination of the two.
 
Why do people imagine that British justice system is too soft? England and Wales has the highest prison population in Western Europe.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Why do people imagine that British justice system is too soft? England and Wales has the highest prison population in Western Europe.
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That probably goes a long way to answering your question. It is simply not seen as a deterrent to crime, especially what is perceived as ASB. You only have to look at these cops with cameras type programmes. Criminals nicking cars, driving with no licence or insurance wrecking cop cars, causing accidents and they get a £250 fine and a 2 year ban on a licence they don’t have. How is that a deterrent to going out the next day and doing it again. It should not be called ASB. People often only serve half their sentence, thats not justice, its economics.
We have more people in prison because it is a soft system, they feel the risk of being caught and serving a sentence is worth doing.
 
Don't you need a passport for international travel? This is going to drag on and on......
 
We have the highest prison population perhaps if it were not so nice inside them we wouldn't. Free board and lodging,craft time, music ,playstation ,free heating and in return the two fingered salute.
 
I think it's the right decision. We should deal with our own citizens through our own legal system, not wash our hands of them. As a member of a proscribed terrorist organisation, she would get 10 years in prison.
 
turnoffsaysthestar said:
We have the highest prison population perhaps if it were not so nice inside them we wouldn't. Free board and lodging,craft time, music ,playstation ,free heating and in return the two fingered salute.
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Part of the reason for sending people to prison is rehabilitation. You can treat people like animals and that may make you feel good, but then you have to let them out to live amongst us.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Part of the reason for sending people to prison is rehabilitation. You can treat people like animals and that may make you feel good, but then you have to let them out to live amongst us.
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You have to want to rehabilitate in the first place. Many don’t. Once a sentence Is served they return to familiar surroundings with like minded friends and family, drink, maybe drugs, no work, nowt to do and so the cycle continues.
 
This is just the Tory media gas lighting people.

The UK has the highest rate of returning jihadi brides in Europe, out of around 400 who have returned to the UK, just 40 have been prosecuted.

I’ve never understood why she is so special and the other 399 or so aren’t news?

They’ve probably just rolled this out to trigger people and distract from the Russia report coming out.
 
We are a ‘tough on crime’ society and always have been.
Prison is used more than most other societies - it ticks a box.
it doesn’t deter because largely, some people won’t be deterred regardless of the criminal consequences.
Most people who commit crimes don’t believe they will get caught.

It is right and proper that she faces the legal system in the UK and takes whatever consequences are deemed necessary.
15 is a troublesome age for our legal system. You may disagree with that but you shouldn’t judge 15 on the seriousness of the crime. IMO of course
 
coluka said:
You have to want to rehabilitate in the first place. Many don’t. Once a sentence Is served they return to familiar surroundings with like minded friends and family, drink, maybe drugs, no work, nowt to do and so the cycle continues.
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This is very true, I agree wholeheartedly. What's the solution to this problem in general then?
 
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