Shamima Begum on GMTV

I disagree, either under 18s are all treated in the same way (the severity of what they have done will be dealt with in the relative proceedings) or everyone under 18 are all treated as adults for what they do.

For me the principle remains the same, picking and choosing on the basis of who they are or what they have done is not natural justice.

Are we not saying pretty much the same thing now? Begum should answer for things she’s done as an adult, not for running away at 15. Bola can’t be retrospectively punished as a child.

Obviously the severity and potential punishments of bad tweets and running to join IS are miles apart, but if both Bola and Begum were caught when they were still kids, they would and should be punished as kids. If Begum committed crimes as an adult, she should be punished according to her age, any other circumstances like grooming should also be taken into account.
 
Are we not saying pretty much the same thing now? Begum should answer for things she’s done as an adult, not for running away at 15. Bola can’t be retrospectively punished as a child.

Obviously the severity and potential punishments of bad tweets and running to join IS are miles apart, but if both Bola and Begum were caught when they were still kids, they would and should be punished as kids. If Begum committed crimes as an adult, she should be punished according to her age, any other circumstances like grooming should also be taken into account.

For 1/2 the time she was away she was a child. I don't know exactly what she has been accused of and when, but her initial actions were as a child, including her radicalisation (if that's what happened) which was the basis of her future actions.
 
For 1/2 the time she was away she was a child. I don't know exactly what she has been accused of and when, but her initial actions were as a child, including her radicalisation (if that's what happened) which was the basis of her future actions.

Yes, and her circumstances would be taken into account, but if she’s committed crimes as an adult she should answer for them.

We’ve all done daft things as kids, many of us will have broken laws but joining IS is far more serious than youthful misdemeanours and as a result will have serious, long term consequences. Those who have joined or expressed sympathy for IS, even as kids, will probably be monitored by security services and it’s completely understandable why - not something that would usually happen for other crimes.

If a kid runs off to join a neo-nazi gang and later commits horrific racist crimes as an adult, they will be tried as an adult. Grooming, mental health, bad childhood, repentance etc can all be covered in a trial and taken into account with sentencing if deemed relevant. This is what should happen with Begum if it’s decided there’s enough to charge her with, and if Javid has seen shocking evidence then I can’t see why this wouldn’t happen if she’s allowed to return.
 
Definitely more than me and you and the rest of the general public know that's for certain.

@JM14 Wasn't ISIS' ultimate goal to create its own country with its own rules? Therefore doesn't that make her a citizen of ISIS by default?
That’s not really how it works
 
That’s not really how it works
It isn't you are right but you can see why some will think she decided she wasn't British anymore and now all of a sudden after ISIS were broken down into smaller fragments her lawyers have raided H&M and plonked her in front of the camera in an attempt to show people she's just like every other girl her age.
 
It isn't you are right but you can see why some will think she decided she wasn't British anymore and now all of a sudden after ISIS were broken down into smaller fragments her lawyers have raided H&M and plonked her in front of the camera in an attempt to show people she's just like every other girl her age.
Some might think that but it doesn’t matter if it’s not factually or legally correct. She has been made stateless by the uk which regardless of her actions is just completely wrong.
Unfortunately that doesn’t come into it for the government, and will just be a huge vote winner for their target audience
 
Some might think that but it doesn’t matter if it’s not factually or legally correct. She has been made stateless by the uk which regardless of her actions is just completely wrong.
Unfortunately that doesn’t come into it for the government, and will just be a huge vote winner for their target audience
Wasn't it the Supreme Court that sealed her fate? The Government simply put their case but as we have seen on other matters, they are rarely successful
 
Some might think that but it doesn’t matter if it’s not factually or legally correct. She has been made stateless by the uk which regardless of her actions is just completely wrong.
Unfortunately that doesn’t come into it for the government, and will just be a huge vote winner for their target audience
There will be plenty of people who vote for lots of different parties who don't want her back so the vote winner for a target audience line doesn't really work, (I'm guessing that was aimed at Tory supporting folk?)

As others have mentioned, if we can all work from home now through teams etc then why can't she tried by video link?
 
There will be plenty of people who vote for lots of different parties who don't want her back so the vote winner for a target audience line doesn't really work, (I'm guessing that was aimed at Tory supporting folk?)

As others have mentioned, if we can all work from home now through teams etc then why can't she tried by video link?
I very much doubt that she feels that she should face justice at all so I doubt she would agree to a virtual court case. Her claim to have her citizenship reinstated is her bargaining chip - in return she will agree to face justice, knowing full well that any accusations will be hard to prove.
 
There will be plenty of people who vote for lots of different parties who don't want her back so the vote winner for a target audience line doesn't really work, (I'm guessing that was aimed at Tory supporting folk?)

As others have mentioned, if we can all work from home now through teams etc then why can't she tried by video link?
I wouldn’t be so sure, expect most people will realise the wider implications if the government can leave someone stateless, and it’s far more important than this one isolated case will ever be

Not sure what you mean by a video link. If she’s now not classed as a British citizen and her crimes didn’t take place in the uk, she won’t ever have a trial
 
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